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#41
11-03-2006, 01:28 AM
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Re: 6000th Post. Let\'s Try This Hand Reading Thing Again
[ QUOTE ]
Man I read the OP, saw it was a long thread and I thought there was going to be a good discussion. DrZen, just give up, you are wrong. [/ QUOTE ] I can discount Ax? It never raises here? I explained why I thought it might. Do you think no one ever thinks like that? My view is that sometimes your opponents' action has some connection with yours. They look at what you do and act accordingly. Do you think that is completely wrong? [ QUOTE ] In any case, I don't think they are flaming you. They are just calling out your very weak arguments, which is certainly fair game on an internet forum. [/ QUOTE ] Yes. "you are [censored] retarded... a complete tool box donkey" was a compelling argument. 
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#42
11-03-2006, 01:32 AM
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Re: 6000th Post. Let\'s Try This Hand Reading Thing Again
[ QUOTE ]
The time to check/call (or consider it) is when the draw doesn't come in. C/c'ing when it does isn't good poker at all. Edit - And yes this is coming from a LHE player as this concept is critical in LHE but imo it applies in NLHE as well. [/ QUOTE ] Brad, I'd always bet this for value in limit, but there are a lot of hands I would bet in limit but not in NL. Can you give any guidance on when I should be looking for value in NL?
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#43
11-03-2006, 01:33 AM
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Re: 6000th Post. Let\'s Try This Hand Reading Thing Again
drzen=flight risk? MULTI ACCOUNTING OMGOMGOGMOGMOGMGOMG
Pudge, nice post. i orginally advocated check/calling the river, and i dont necessarily think its significantly worse still (simply because of the buy in and the idea that readless villains will still take this donk line with hands that we beat on the river, and the likelihood of them bluffing river is greater, IMO), but i do now agree that betting the river is a better line. thanks for the post, congrats on 6000, and stop having a family of good poker players, its not fair.
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#44
11-03-2006, 01:36 AM
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Re: 6000th Post. Let\'s Try This Hand Reading Thing Again
Drzen,
Obviously I was not as clear as I should have been in my posting, and I also clearly got fed up at the end because I was tired of this thread. BTW I know I came off as huge douche towards the end of the thread so you know just letting you know I'm not a douche and I'm sure you aren't actually a [censored] retard.
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#45
11-03-2006, 02:46 AM
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Re: 6000th Post. Let\'s Try This Hand Reading Thing Again
[ QUOTE ] Sometimes this is Ax that has put you solidly on TP and wants you to take a stab at the river, feeling you will fold on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] almost never, how do you put someone who checks the flop and turn solidly on TP? this statement is borderline moronic. [ QUOTE ] It's no good talking about ranges if you then discount the range without reason. [/ QUOTE ] Ax will almost never minraise this river when every possible draw has hit, thus we discount it greatly even if we dont completely eliminate it. [ QUOTE ] A flush draw needs to fold the flop, by the way. [/ QUOTE ] no, not really. Implied odds make this call ok as Eagles said [ QUOTE ] He has written a post about hand ranges in which he narrows a hand range without any reason. I think it's reasonable to talk about that. [/ QUOTE ] it would be if he didnt have a reason but he did [ QUOTE ] Yes. With reason. You cannot discount any part of the range for no good reason. [/ QUOTE ] see above [ QUOTE ] if you put someone on a pfr range of TT+ AQ+ and they keep firing at an ace high board are you going to say well they could have TT JJ QQ KK my A2 is way ahead of his range. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But in the one at hand, villain's bet fits quite a few different hands, not just a made flush, some of which you beat easily. Do you see the difference? [/ QUOTE ] i am beginning to think you are an idiot, you are beating very very little of the villains range. [ QUOTE ] 3.Nobody ever folds a flush draw on this flop, nor should they [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I'm done with you, son. I *want* you to call me with a flush draw on this flop. I *want* you to keep calling me, hoping to get lucky. Call me again on the turn because, hey, you still have great implied odds on the river. I *rely* on fish calling because they have flush draws. That's how the chips come my way. [/ QUOTE ] now its confirmed, you're an idiot. the fact that you "Want people you with a flush draw," and yet still advocate calling the river minraise when the flushdraw and the straight draw both hit means you need serious work at things way less complicated than handreading. [ QUOTE ] call again on the turn blah blah blah blah [/ QUOTE ] you advocate leading flop and turn here with TPNK, 2ndPNK respectively, in a 3-way pot? Micro stakes NL is like 3 forums up i suggest you spend some time there before you even think about hand reading. And FWIW, you can't write my post off as a loyal supporter of pudge. IIRC, our only direct interaction on 2p2 was him calling me an idiot.
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#46
11-03-2006, 03:09 AM
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Re: 6000th Post. Let\'s Try This Hand Reading Thing Again
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Sometimes this is Ax that has put you solidly on TP and wants you to take a stab at the river, feeling you will fold on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] almost never, how do you put someone who checks the flop and turn solidly on TP? this statement is borderline moronic. [/ QUOTE ] You know. I just do not have the time to discuss this with someone who gets it so [censored] wrong. *He* puts *us* on TP because *we* bet the flop. No one checked. I have never, not even once suggested that we should bet the turn here or anything like it. I have never, not even once advocated calling the river raise. I said that you could not discount a set of hands, not that it was wrong to fold. You have gone firing off because you think that I am saying that because there are hands you cannot discount, you should call the raise. I haven't said anything like that, only that it is wrong to discount the hands in question without reason. You are right that there's a moron here though. Pat yourself on the back for getting that much spot on.
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#47
11-03-2006, 03:24 AM
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Re: 6000th Post. Let\'s Try This Hand Reading Thing Again
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Sometimes this is Ax that has put you solidly on TP and wants you to take a stab at the river, feeling you will fold on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] almost never, how do you put someone who checks the flop and turn solidly on TP? this statement is borderline moronic. [/ QUOTE ] You know. I just do not have the time to discuss this with someone who gets it so [censored] wrong. *He* puts *us* on TP because *we* bet the flop. No one checked. I have never, not even once suggested that we should bet the turn here or anything like it. I have never, not even once advocated calling the river raise. I said that you could not discount a set of hands, not that it was wrong to fold. You have gone firing off because you think that I am saying that because there are hands you cannot discount, you should call the raise. I haven't said anything like that, only that it is wrong to discount the hands in question without reason. You are right that there's a moron here though. Pat yourself on the back for getting that much spot on. [/ QUOTE ] although you are right about me not seeing that mike bet out, i wouldnt believe that you are beating 5NL without seeing a graph.
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#48
11-03-2006, 04:39 AM
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Re: 6000th Post. Let\'s Try This Hand Reading Thing Again
Ummm, Drzen = insta-ban!! WTF mods!?! [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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#49
11-03-2006, 04:46 AM
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Re: 6000th Post. Let\'s Try This Hand Reading Thing Again
pudge,
i like the river line a lot. apparently its a big leak of mine. nh
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