Professional No-Limit Holdem SSNL Discussion

[gowron8]

I'm a LL NL player (live) who prefers buying in with 100+bb's but I've recently moved and my primary game will be more LA style... 2/5 with 300 max buyin. I was hoping for your thoughts on how PNLH might address strategy for players such as myself that are forced to buy in relatively short stacked.
Thanks

[Joe Tall]

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Found Joe Tall's review on amazon. He's already killing poker after reading the book even though he's sucked for 7 years. LMAO.

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leveled?

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It's a personal joke between Matt, Sunny, Ed and I as it says I was impotent for 7 years before reading the book! But I'm glad you enjoyed my review! The book is a must!

[bilbo-san]

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we also explain how it works better if everyone has deep stacks (by deep we mean 200+, but around 150bb it starts shifting towards being easier for top pair hands).

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If this is the case why not just start minraising instead of making it 3.5BB? [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

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'Cause players like me love to 3-bet minraisers with 100% of their normal (i.e. considerably large) pfr range? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[bilbo-san]

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or opt to play a smaller preflop pot

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it's actually pretty rare that we have this option. if i limp into a pot, so often a player acting after me will raise, many times even with hands that they would have folded had i raised.

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if he raises you have the option to play a bigger pot, still avoiding the dangerous middle ground of SPR.

further, if he's raising with such a broad range, you're ahead and want that bigger pot unless you'll lose more than your share of the games of chicken.

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You will lose more than your share, because usually that raiser with a wide range has position.

Let's say you limp with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and the button raises with a wide range, in fact, so wide that you are ahead of it.

a) it's seriously -EV to play this hand against him in this pot if he's any good, especially if the pot is heads-up
b) it's seriously -EV to 3-bet this hand now

[Matt Flynn]

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You will lose more than your share, because usually that raiser with a wide range has position.

Let's say you limp with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and the button raises with a wide range, in fact, so wide that you are ahead of it.

a) it's seriously -EV to play this hand against him in this pot if he's any good, especially if the pot is heads-up
b) it's seriously -EV to 3-bet this hand now

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JTs is not normally a hand you play to make top pair and commit, so the reasoning i gave does not apply.

[kpr16]

For Matt or Sunny,

I found the example on page 128 interesting. I'm very curious as to what size raise you guys recommend with a pot of $39 (minus rake) after villain bets and we have $190 left with A7d on a Qh-6d-5d-8c board? Is 4.75x pot definitely too much to jam with?

Btw, great book from what I've read so far, and I feel like it's just what I needed to help me transition to playing more NL.

Edit:

I guess instead we should say we have about 3x pot (after we call). So a jam is definitely OK I think. But I'm really struggling with this one because of our likely ranges. We want a fold, but that's fairly obvious to our opponent as well. So either way you look at it, it's a balancing act. Really curious to hear some discussion on this one.

[jeffnc]

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if I personally had to pinpoint "easy stack stack size targets"

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What does that mean?

[Sunny Mehta]

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You will lose more than your share, because usually that raiser with a wide range has position.

Let's say you limp with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and the button raises with a wide range, in fact, so wide that you are ahead of it.

a) it's seriously -EV to play this hand against him in this pot if he's any good, especially if the pot is heads-up
b) it's seriously -EV to 3-bet this hand now

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Hi Bilbo-san,

I like the way you're thinking, but as Matt said, JTs is just not a very strong top pair hand. Make the hand AJs or AQs and I don't think your two qualms ring true.

-S

[Sunny Mehta]

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For Matt or Sunny,

I found the example on page 128 interesting. I'm very curious as to what size raise you guys recommend with a pot of $39 (minus rake) after villain bets and we have $190 left with A7d on a Qh-6d-5d-8c board? Is 4.75x pot definitely too much to jam with?

Btw, great book from what I've read so far, and I feel like it's just what I needed to help me transition to playing more NL.

Edit:

I guess instead we should say we have about 3x pot (after we call). So a jam is definitely OK I think. But I'm really struggling with this one because of our likely ranges. We want a fold, but that's fairly obvious to our opponent as well. So either way you look at it, it's a balancing act. Really curious to hear some discussion on this one.

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Hi kpr16,

So long as you don't make a little donk raise, I don't think it matters a whole lot what exact amount you choose to raise to - pretty much whatever you think maximizes your fold equity. You'll be committed at that point anyway.

-S

[Sunny Mehta]

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if I personally had to pinpoint "easy stack stack size targets"

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What does that mean?

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oops, writing "stack" twice was a misprint....I just meant specific stack size amounts that are "easy"....check out my response to TT earlier in this thread for more elaboration...