NL200: Flopped baby flush OOP in 5-way pot

[Rooger]

BB is unknown at the time of the hand. Stats over 20 hands are 12/12/0, nothing to give too much credit to, but makes it quite unlikely he's a maniac.

What's my plan now? How will we play the river?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($311.12)
Hero ($200)
BB ($197)
UTG ($248.72)
MP ($194.80)
CO ($190)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $2, MP calls $2, CO calls $2, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($10) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $8</font>, BB calls $8, UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds.

Turn: ($26) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $18</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $36</font>, Hero??

[nitramee]

I am not folding this.this is two pair/set a lot of times ,so i like to push right there.

[deucedeuce00]

Raise turn to like 80, push river.

[Rooger]

[ QUOTE ]
I am not folding this.this is two pair/set a lot of times ,so i like to push right there.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think a two-pair combo would call a push given my position &amp; the action. Seems like a very hard way to play for instance bottom two.

As the pot is 5-way, I'd think that BB would raise a set on the flop quite often - thoughts?

What I want is to extract the most from a two-pair combo &amp; an eventual set, and not going broke to a bigger flush (though this situation will be quite rare).

[AbreuTime]

From stack sizes, a push is absolute spew. No worse hand calls, while better hands all call. Villain either wants cheap showdown, is semibluffing with nutflush draw, or has strong flush. I don't think you should be aiming to get it all in on turn.

Villain has very strong line, and my instinct against unknown is to call, then c/c. It's a weak line, but villain is often sitting on big flush. Fold on river, depending on odds, may be appropriate. Against unknown, most players will not minraise turn (will often minraise flop for free card/value) with draw/2 pair/set, and instead they have high flush.

[JonnyCosMo]

Call turn, evaluate river.

[Rooger]

[ QUOTE ]
From stack sizes, a push is absolute spew. No worse hand calls, while better hands all call. Villain either wants cheap showdown, is semibluffing with nutflush draw, or has strong flush. I don't think you should be aiming to get it all in on turn.

Villain has very strong line, and my instinct against unknown is to call, then c/c. It's a weak line, but villain is often sitting on big flush. Fold on river, depending on odds, may be appropriate. Against unknown, most players will not minraise turn (will often minraise flop for free card/value) with draw/2 pair/set, and instead they have high flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good post, thanks.

[ QUOTE ]
Call turn, evaluate river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think evaluting the river, is a quite vague thing to say in this situation. Any non A/6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], or a paired board, pretty much makes it a c/f IMO.

So what is the plan if we call &amp; the river is a blank? Do we lead? c/c pot? c/r ai?

[ QUOTE ]
Raise turn to like 80, push river.

[/ QUOTE ]
If we raise, do we call a push, with almost no chance of improving?

[ReptileHouse]

I call turn. River on a blank is tough with these stack sizes. A blocker bet feels right to get value from sets, but if he pushes over the top it's a really tough spot. I probably check/call river up to a PSB.

That min-raise on the turn feels a lot like a feeler raise trying to decide if you're just screwing around in an unraised pot or if you really have a big hand. I hate those sorts of raises, but I see villains use them a ton. Arguing against that, though, is that those raises are more often on the flop than on the turn.

Just make it easy and spike the Ad on the river, k?

[bilbo-san]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise turn to like 80, push river.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so ugly. The A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] will thank you for it.

Just push now.

[keikiwai]

i initially think about a call, as pushing gets called by bigger flushes and sets, and the only set this could be is TT.... so it'a slowplayed flush more often

if he had rr-ed on the flop, i would have pushed as it's often a draw or whatever, but not on the turn w/ only one card to come and given flop action

river is $100 w/ $150 dollar stacks and you're hnot liking things....

in the end, i think, this leaves me w/ the impression that folding the turn is a good play, but i feel crazy for suggesting it