TPTK Nut FD turn play

Aggromang · #1 10-31-2007, 01:43 AM

BB is a HUGE calling station: 57/8.5 with 48.9 WTSD over 140 hands
Button seems to be a weak player never raising pf: 13.5/0 over 215 hands
2/4 Hold'em (6 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, 1 fold, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, MP calls, Button calls.

Flop: (8 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, MP folds, Button calls, Hero calls.

I should have 3 bet the flop.

Turn: (7 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, Button raises, Hero ???

I put them on these ranges:

Board: Kd Qh 6s 5s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hero: 32.611% 32.61% 00.00% 12327 0.00 { AsKs }
BB: 09.563% 08.72% 00.84% 3297 318.00 { K2s+, Q6s, K2o+, Q6o }
BUTTON: 57.825% 56.98% 00.84% 21540 318.00 { 66, K6s-K5s, JsTs, K6o-K5o }

I tried doing some calculations but dealing with 2 villains seemed too hard for me.

If BB calls 85% with his range to a 3 bet, and folds 15% of the time to a 3 bet, is it correct to 3 bet the turn??

I'm thinking the button will 4 bet the turn only with a set.

milesdyson · #2 10-31-2007, 01:50 AM

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I should have 3 bet the flop.

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when button coldcalls that flop i may just call and hope it goes bet-->raise when i check turn. either way i prefer 3-betting to calling and donking the turn.

anyway,

3-betting is terrible

milesdyson · #3 10-31-2007, 01:51 AM

also your range for button is too wide. JsTs? K6o? K5o?

rzk · #4 10-31-2007, 02:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I should have 3 bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
when button coldcalls that flop i may just call and hope it goes bet-->raise when i check turn. either way i prefer 3-betting to calling and donking the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

why are you hoping the button raises when you check the turn?

Aggromang · #5 10-31-2007, 02:31 AM

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also your range for button is too wide. JsTs? K6o? K5o?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right. Taking the fact that he's super weak tight, I should put him on KQ, QQ, 66 here. Now, how would you play the turn? c/c?? or c/r for value considering most of the times BB is calling?

milesdyson · #6 10-31-2007, 02:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I should have 3 bet the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
when button coldcalls that flop i may just call and hope it goes bet-->raise when i check turn. either way i prefer 3-betting to calling and donking the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

why are you hoping the button raises when you check the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
sorry i conveniently ignored the fact that we have to call anyway

rzk · #7 10-31-2007, 03:00 AM

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why are you hoping the button raises when you check the turn?

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sorry i conveniently ignored the fact that we have to call anyway

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[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] so what's your preferred line now - call flop or 3 bet? to me they look pretty close. if we just call, do you think donking is bad on this turn card? i kind of like it, because our equity improved dramatically and we don't really want the turn getting checked through, which is what can happen if bb is on a weak made hand and button is on a draw.

inferno · #8 10-31-2007, 04:35 AM

time to callio and hit a spadeio

thepizzlefosho · #9 10-31-2007, 04:48 AM

3-bet the flop. As played a turn 3-bet is most likely spew.

the real question IMO is if we improve on the river do we donk or c/r? if we hit the spade? if we hit the K? if we hit the A?

Obviously the spade is the one card that we know we have the best hand and don't mind if we get 3-bet, but our hand also looks a lot like a pair and a spade draw when we donk the turn and weak tight players often fear the nuts.

I think I donk the spade (try to catch the LP in between and hope the button raises). But I'm not sure if we should be putting in more action if an A or K hits on the river since the nit could have us beat or the LP could have rivered a straight.