Absolute Poker Scandal: An Inside Job

[fraac]

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One interesting sidenote in the Seif/Tom relationship.

The only record of Scott Tom (if he was on scott@rivieraltd.com) is opening up table 9 for like 20 seconds. He never opened up table 13, which was POTRIPPER's table as an *observer*.

Coincidentally, Mark Seif was playing in the event on table 9.

So that does tell me they were friends and that there's a good chance Scott Tom was controlling the 363/scott@rivieraltd.com accounts.

At least it's the simplest explanation for why he opened up table 9 briefly.

EDIT: None of that means he was involved in cheating, but I am pretty confident he had a friendship with Scott Tom and that Scott was controlling those computers

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Purely for factual completeness, what action occurred on table 9 during those twenty seconds?

edit: come to think of it, would you play in a tournament knowing 1st place prize money was already taken? Shame you don't have the entire hh; it would implicate or absolve Mark Seif almost completely.

[cpitt398]

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You guys seem to get really pissed off when people bring up the Seif allegations, but TBH, I think someone should put a little bit of work into that. See if that guy who made the accusation can send the HHs so we can either confirm he was being ridic or see that it's basically the same thing.

If we totally clear mark, this hijack can end. If we find out he's related, we have a much easier target than some faux-CEO who spams forums.

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Seeing as he recanted his story, [i]to protect himself on absolute and with absolute now going down in flames i don't doubt it.

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1.) he recanted his story, did he ever say that it was because it would hurt his cash cow?
2.) Did he ever provide HH?
3.) IS IT STILL ONE [censored] HAND?
jeez, you guys have nothing... stop diluting a very important thread
4.) Seif still lost money in the game...

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your starting to tilt me pretty hard.

[suzzer99]

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I think this pretty much shows that when that dude claimed mark seif could see his hole cards he wasn't lying and that has been my gut feeling all alone. Seif is apparently Scott Tom's boy.


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theres no evidence at all with anything involving mark seif, just one guy who was getting his ass kicked in one HU session.


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He wasn't lying in that post. He was genuinely shocked and confused at how mark seif could open fold to him in a capped pot pre when he flopped a full house. Sure it is one story but he wasn't lying. That is what happened from that guys perspective and the timeline is very convenient. Mark Seif obviously has a very close personal relationship with potripper and co.


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1 hand isn't evidence sir

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In context, it can be. Consider the following assumptions:

1: Mark Seif is a professional poker player.
2: Mark Seif's friend and co-founder of AP is known to have access to a super-user account that can see all hole cards.
3: Mark Seif is playing a high stakes heads-up limit match, and open-folds the flop in a preflop capped hand when his opponent flopped a boat (details please).

Open folding like this in a random pro match might happen 1/100 times at most. In a match where the folder is exploiting a super user we would expect it to happen very often when the opponent flops a strong hand.

Given what we know, what is the most likely cause of the open fold?

I would say even this one piece of anectdotal evidence given the circumstances is about as strong as a polygraph. Not strong enough to convict - but should raise an extremely high level of suspicion.

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I'm sorry, but your reasoning here is 100% FOS

Mark Seif open folded, it happens, it's happened to me when I've had a good hand and a bad hand. Seif lost money in these games, seems weird he'd do that if he was a superuser...

Lets not get all dilute the importance of this thread with half-assed speculation

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yeah, this seif [censored] needs to stop. Yes we all know it would be even more awesome if seif was involved because people dont like him, and it would be even greater publicity/awesomeness for a name pro to be involved. But there isnt any evidence, and all this trying to make it fit stuff is just bringing down all the other solid work thats been done here.

That whole HU match can be explained plenty of other ways. Seif says BRB cuz he had to go take a [censored], then he comes back and says hes ready to crush him now, cuz hes a big [censored] talker and thats what [censored] talkers do. He's on tilt and goes on a hot streak. Ive open folded plenty of times even after raising PF when im on tilt, so this one time the other guy had a big hand. big deal, varience. Without any other evidence or data there is NOTHING here that links whats going on in this thread, with that incident, other than coincidence

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You and ikestoyes are either buddies with Seif, or you think it's best or have some kind of vested interest to not bring him in for some reason, or you'd make really really horrible investigators. Read the story again. Read my post earlier in the thread. Obviously there isn't enough evidence to convict. But to say that there is NOTHING to link the two cases is like saying black is white. You're wrong.

You sound like the Absolute shills defending DOUBLEDRAG - "DOUBLEDRAG plays a style that will put you to the test on the river".

[Kimbell175113]

ikes,
in all seriousness, I think the Seif thing has been made a bigger deal and gotten more attention mostly because you show up yelling every time someone mentions the name. People have no choice but to respond because you are repeating things that just don't fit with our information.

I do remember there was a post (in the 'more damning evidence' thread) where someone said he had given reasons why he recanted, and yes, he clearly did do it in a way that implied he was still suspicious (I remember a repetition of "I'll play at AP, but not against any higher-ups in the company" or something to that effect.) I'll try to search for it, just a minute.

[ikestoys]

suzzer- I lost 30k to DOUBLEDRAG

Mark seif seemingly has had nothing to do with it.

I've never met mark seif.

You guys have nothing on Seif, not enough to convict, not enough to indict, but enough to screw up my chances of getting my money back with half-baked conspiracy theories

[highhustla]

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You guys seem to get really pissed off when people bring up the Seif allegations, but TBH, I think someone should put a little bit of work into that. See if that guy who made the accusation can send the HHs so we can either confirm he was being ridic or see that it's basically the same thing.



If we totally clear mark, this hijack can end. If we find out he's related, we have a much easier target than some faux-CEO who spams forums.

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Seeing as he recanted his story, to protect himself on absolute and with absolute now going down in flames i don't doubt it.

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1.) he recanted his story, did he ever say that it was because it would hurt his cash cow?
2.) Did he ever provide HH?
3.) IS IT STILL ONE [censored] HAND?
jeez, you guys have nothing... stop diluting a very important thread
4.) Seif still lost money in the game...

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Ike,

No, dude.

1. Why the [censored] would he SAY that???
2. dunno
3. NO it wasn't, from what I remember of that thread
4. Did he not start off a huge loser, then come back and win a lot? Maybe he just wanted to get mostly unstuck?

Obviously we're speculating about a lot of things here, but it is really f'n eerie how similar the episode sounded. At this point, IMO, it's not a hijack at all. It's just another thread to investigate. HE POSTED ABSOLUTE'S STONEWALLING IN HIS BLOG for Chrissakes.

If we need a new Cliffs notes thread for the mainstream media then we should do that. But telling people to stfu about Seif in here is ridiculous.

EDIT: yeah I get your motivations now and I'm sorry, but you were pretty much a huge [censored] this whole time, so not that sorry

[jhill3535]

FWIW, both Myspace accounts for Scott and Philip that are shown above are linked as friends list of Mark Seif.

Scott is on Page 11 and Philip is on Page 7

Mark Seif's MySpace Friends

I am not saying that these are definately the right people just that both of those profiles that have been listed previously are 2 of the 648 friends on Mark Seif's list.

[ikestoys]

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ikes,
in all seriousness, I think the Seif thing has been made a bigger deal and gotten more attention mostly because you show up yelling every time someone mentions the name. People have no choice but to respond because you are repeating things that just don't fit with our information.

I do remember there was a post (in the 'more damning evidence' thread) where someone said he had given reasons why he recanted, and yes, he clearly did do it in a way that implied he was still suspicious (I remember a repetition of "I'll play at AP, but not against any higher-ups in the company" or something to that effect.) I'll try to search for it, just a minute.

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I'm remembering that too, but isn't still entirely plausible seif ran hot against him for awhile? There's nothing more to the evidence than one session of seif pwning some dude.

[ikestoys]

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You guys seem to get really pissed off when people bring up the Seif allegations, but TBH, I think someone should put a little bit of work into that. See if that guy who made the accusation can send the HHs so we can either confirm he was being ridic or see that it's basically the same thing.



If we totally clear mark, this hijack can end. If we find out he's related, we have a much easier target than some faux-CEO who spams forums.

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Seeing as he recanted his story, to protect himself on absolute and with absolute now going down in flames i don't doubt it.

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1.) he recanted his story, did he ever say that it was because it would hurt his cash cow?
2.) Did he ever provide HH?
3.) IS IT STILL ONE [censored] HAND?
jeez, you guys have nothing... stop diluting a very important thread
4.) Seif still lost money in the game...

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Ike,

No, dude.

1. Why the [censored] would he SAY that???
2. dunno
3. NO it wasn't, from what I remember of that thread
4. Did he not start off a huge loser, then come back and win a lot? Maybe he just wanted to get mostly unstuck?

Obviously we're speculating about a lot of things here, but it is really f'n eerie how similar the episode sounded. At this point, IMO, it's not a hijack at all. It's just another thread to investigate. HE POSTED ABSOLUTE'S STONEWALLING IN HIS BLOG for Chrissakes.

If we need a new Cliffs notes thread for the mainstream media then we should do that. But telling people to stfu about Seif in here is ridiculous.

EDIT: yeah I get your motivations now and I'm sorry, but you were pretty much a huge [censored] this whole time, so not that sorry

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1.) Because he was steaming when he first said it, he wouldn't have been the first person to say the other person was cheating at poker after he got his ass beat.
2.) No HH no Evidence
3.)The entire evidence from the guys post was from a time where seif open-folded when he made a boat. Otherwise, it was him getting pwned HU.
4.)Pretty sure he was still a loser

I'm an ass b/c youre a dumbass

[Kimbell175113]

For the record: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=12506673

(no, I don't use threaded mode, but it works better for this link)

edit: I do agree that talk of Seif is distracting us, but that's our fault, not anything to do with the merit of the investigation. We should have no problem mentioning the name if it comes up, but I think we should also restrain ourselves from the yelling and insults that have recently followed every mention of his name for some reason.