Stupidly Gambling For Millions Is Admirable?

[doox]

[ QUOTE ]
I happen to agree with you, but question whether you think gambling has any social value at all.

If so, would it be:

1. Entertainment value,
2. Reallocation of capital from non-productive gamblers to casino owners, smart players, ....
3. ???
4. Profit.


[/ QUOTE ]

[Worm75]

David you have spent your life writing books to teach people how to play this game that we all love. In this time surely you have to understand, that to a certain extent a succesful poker player/gambler has less regard for money than your average joe working 50hrs a week to bring home the paycheck.

It is this ability to suspend the regard for money which makes gamblers succesfull at the highest levels. So it is not surprising that many of the younger generation here on 2+2 would admire these guys who have no problem at all risking enormous sums of money for thrill of gambling.

Look at the median age of people here on your website, I would guess that for most of us we are in our early 20's on average. When you are at that age basically starting your life, and you see people just a few years older than you partying it up and playing poker for a living, no surprise that they get a little hero worship. Very rare is the player who decides to seriously play the game and study it that doesn't have some aspirations to make it at a high level.

Your beating your head in the wall if you think that your "warning", is going to get any sort of serious credence here, because like many things in life it is a lesson that has to be learned first hand. If you are crushing the games for a sick winrate right now, and have done so at every level that you have ever played, it shouldn't be surprising that you have the confidence in yourself to play outside of your bankroll. The only way that you learn that this can crush you is to take some hard hits.

The good side to this is, as Shaniac said, that there is a new young generation of players who while be just a hungry as the old generation now understand the need to have a large enough bankroll to combat the dangers of variance in poker. They also have the discipline to move down when not running well and never sacrifice there whole bankroll for pride. But like anything else in life there will always be people that can't get enough of a good thing, and gambling is one of those occurences that when you run hot it can really reward you.

If your post was meant as a warning, and not the snide lil' snipe at other pros that it seemed like, then thank you. But to sit here and belabour over it is a waste of time, because people are going to believe what they believe about themselves, no matter what you do.

[Mediocre_Player]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with this sentiment.

Poker players today are in a unique place in time and space, and if they really want to be part of the larger world, they should try to connect in more real ways with things that aren't always related to gambling lots of money. The contest for Biggest Degenerate will never be won, so it would be far more enlightened to take that money and do something useful with it. (Edit: At least in the case of someone trying to pursue some version of religious enlightenment with or without poker).

I also think it's crazy that we have the unique opportunity to travel to lots of amazing places in the world, in near first-class style and with relative ease, and the only thing most poker players could tell you about those locations is how good the cash games were or how much they flipped for over dinner.

[/ QUOTE ]

I always wonder about this part of the "touring Pro's" lifestyle.

Ie. the EPT. Do ppl who go to these take advantage of being in such renowned cities and soak up the local culture or is all time spent during non tourney time spent playing cash games, playing on the laptop, partying in the hotel, and sleeping?

[Jason Strasser (strassa2)]

I'm assuming my post has something to do with this.

Stupidly gambling is obviously a horrendous idea in a nutshell. But you can't just say all stupid gambling is not admirable, IMO the intentions behind the gambling can make even the most ridiculous bets/propositions/life moves which will almost certainly fail, admirable.

For example, an actor could be told by everyone he is terrible, ugly, unskilled, etc. etc., but still sell all his stuff and go to LA and take a shot at it. This to me is probably a stupid gamble (especially if he has opportunities elsewhere), but admirable.

If a poor poker player has aspirations of making it to the big game takes ridiculous risks while chasing a far-fetched dream, I find it admirable. He might fail but at least he will fail trying to fulfill one of his goals. I personally have avoided stupidly gambling in spots where I wish I had tried. I didn't apply early to Stanford because I was told I had no chance, and although I loved Duke I sorta wish I had taken a chance and used my early app on Stanford instead.

The extension of all this is that the opposite is true in my mind. People who don't set goals and try to go after them for various reasons (lack of ambition, laziness, confidence issues, whatever...) are not admirable. Same goes for people who set goals but don't persue them for the same reasons. It's not a bad quality, it's just not admirable.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with this sentiment.

Poker players today are in a unique place in time and space, and if they really want to be part of the larger world, they should try to connect in more real ways with things that aren't always related to gambling lots of money. The contest for Biggest Degenerate will never be won, so it would be far more enlightened to take that money and do something useful with it. (Edit: At least in the case of someone trying to pursue some version of religious enlightenment with or without poker).

I also think it's crazy that we have the unique opportunity to travel to lots of amazing places in the world, in near first-class style and with relative ease, and the only thing most poker players could tell you about those locations is how good the cash games were or how much they flipped for over dinner.

[/ QUOTE ]

I always wonder about this part of the "touring Pro's" lifestyle.

Ie. the EPT. Do ppl who go to these take advantage of being in such renowned cities and soak up the local culture or is all time spent during non tourney time spent playing cash games, playing on the laptop, partying in the hotel, and sleeping?

[/ QUOTE ]

most time is unfortunately spent playing poker. generally the people i've went with have tried to spend at least 1-2 days in each city going around and enjoying the city/culture, but even that doesn't always happen. while it is worth bearing in mind that it is, in essence, a business trip, and having that be the main focus of your trip isn't a bad thing, i do think that players should try to take greater advantage of where this game takes them.

[David Sklansky]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm assuming my post has something to do with this.

Stupidly gambling is obviously a horrendous idea in a nutshell. But you can't just say all stupid gambling is not admirable, IMO the intentions behind the gambling can make even the most ridiculous bets/propositions/life moves which will almost certainly fail, admirable.

For example, an actor could be told by everyone he is terrible, ugly, unskilled, etc. etc., but still sell all his stuff and go to LA and take a shot at it. This to me is probably a stupid gamble (especially if he has opportunities elsewhere), but admirable.

If a poor poker player has aspirations of making it to the big game takes ridiculous risks while chasing a far-fetched dream, I find it admirable. He might fail but at least he will fail trying to fulfill one of his goals. I personally have avoided stupidly gambling in spots where I wish I had tried. I didn't apply early to Stanford because I was told I had no chance, and although I loved Duke I sorta wish I had taken a chance and used my early app on Stanford instead.

The extension of all this is that the opposite is true in my mind. People who don't set goals and try to go after them for various reasons (lack of ambition, laziness, confidence issues, whatever...) are not admirable. Same goes for people who set goals but don't persue them for the same reasons. It's not a bad quality, it's just not admirable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have no problem with your actor example.

I have no problem with the 30-60 player who tries 100-200.

I have a problem with the guy who can make 400K a year playing high, throwing away enough money to feed an African city, beause of a ridiculous notion that he can make money where no one else can. Especially if his tiny chance for success doesn't translate into helping others if he somehow succeeds.

[TxRedMan]

I'd like to know if it was $500,000 in one game, or several.

Also, golf is handicapped, David. If you set the handicaps correctly, matches should be even and whoever plays the best should win. Luck is a very small factor in golf.

But, if you're playing for $100,000 a hole, it's not unlikely to lose $500,000, but assuming the handicap is fair, it's a neutral EV proposition, and if you've got a bankroll that is in the five to ten million range, it's not that big of a deal.


I fail to understand how you can't relate some of your own concepts to this situation.

[West]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems like a lot of people think it is admirable, or romantic or exciting to risk millions of dollars on gambling games with little or no edge. They somehow equate that with other entrepreneurs who pursue their dreams with little thought of the downside.

But don't you think there is a difference? I'm all for betting big money with an edge that justifies it. And I have no problem if people want to gamble big money without this edge. But to call this second category "admirable" seems totally wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't particularly see much intrinsically "admirable" in the first group either...

[Dominic]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a lot of friends who pull 90 hours weeks who don't understand how someone could risk the possibility of not making next month's rent because of the turn of a card.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand it and I'm one of the ones doing it. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[ibluffoldladies]

[ QUOTE ]
Especially if his tiny chance for success doesn't translate into helping others if he somehow succeeds.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I'm not mistaken David, I believe this is your main issue with these superstars. I have to agree. For example, I'm watching high stakes poker, and I'm watching these guys making ridiculous prop bets for huge sums of money. I can't help but think about how much larger their children's trust fund could be. The money they make is thrown away so fast, while it could be put to better use. It's depressing. This seems to be the recurring theme of your posts.