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#32
11-18-2007, 10:34 PM
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Re: Another common spot with AK
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone like a small 4bet here? [/ QUOTE ] This seems like the worst possible choice to me. A small four-bet has less folding equity than usual, meaning you fail to grab that $9 pot that is definitely worth scooping up. Also, you're going to be OOP on three more betting rounds in a huge pot where you're going to miss the flop 2/3rds of the time. If you're going to build a huge pot OOP you really want to end the betting immediately. The best argument for a push here is that it completely eliminates any chances that you make an expensive FTOP mistake, and it maximizes the chances that your opponent makes an expensive FTOP mistake. That can be nothing but good for you. OOP and against an unknown but probably aggressive opponent with a strong drawing hand, I'd rather just put it all in and see where the chips fall. Anything else is going to be more expensive in the long run. [ QUOTE ] are people really 3beting UTG opens with hands like KQo, 99, TT, AQ? [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, they are. 
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#33
11-18-2007, 10:38 PM
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Re: Another common spot with AK
What about ICMoney's point though about the fact that we really arent doing this with AA and KK are we? If we are going to assume that a huge shove like this should get a fold from those 99-QQ hands often, then we surely shouldnt do it with AA and KK. If we arent doing it with either of those hands, then doesnt this play become fairly transparent?
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#34
11-18-2007, 10:52 PM
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Re: Another common spot with AK
[ QUOTE ]
What about ICMoney's point though about the fact that we really arent doing this with AA and KK are we? [/ QUOTE ] Why aren't we? we shouldn't make ANY play 100% of the time should we (talking about playing this vs a thinking TAG that is) why shouldn't we 4bet push AA or KK if the TAG is going to see through our sneaky play with "AK" and call with TT. IF we pull this trick with KK and get all our chips in vs this TAG as an 88% preflop favourite isn't that TAG going to think twice about calling off his whole stack with JJ or worse again in thefuture? Once you put doubt in peoples minds - once we make them guess at what our holding really is - THEN they are GOING to make mistakes - big expensive mistakes and THAT is where our profit is - giving people the opportunity to make HUGE blunders is very very +EV.
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#35
11-18-2007, 11:12 PM
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Re: Another common spot with AK
the answer to this question depends on an unknowns 3betting range versus a UTG raise. At 25NL i feel its JJ+/AK making this a fold (43% equity) while at 50NL and above its probably a push because villans are 3betting lighter and are much more agressive preflop.
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#38
11-19-2007, 01:04 AM
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Re: Another common spot with AK
some ye olde heavydance for my AK results...
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...Number=7994774 used to be my numero uno losing hand (yes I was playing it badly) so far this db it's one of my biggest winners and thats despite hands like... Party Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter CO: $25.21 BTN: $52 Hero (SB): $50.25 BB: $60.57 UTG: $49.75 MP: $105.50 Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (SB) 2 folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $2</font>, BTN folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $6.50</font>, BB folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $21</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $35.25</font>, CO calls $4.21 and is All-In Flop: ($50.92) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In) Turn: ($50.92) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In) River: ($50.92) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In) Results: $50.92 Pot ($2.54 Rake) CO showed Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a flush, Ace high) and WON $48.38 (+$23.17 NET) Hero showed K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (two pairs, Aces and Fives) and LOST (-$25.21 NET) Party Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players Hero (UTG): $50 MP: $59.58 CO: $9.25 BTN: $32.31 SB: $67.70 BB: $77.06 Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (UTG) <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, 4 folds, <font color="red">BB raises to $8</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $50 and is All-In</font>, BB calls $42 Flop: ($100.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In) Turn: ($100.25) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In) River: ($100.25) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In) Results: $100.25 Pot ($3 Rake) Hero mucked K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (high card Ace) and LOST (-$50 NET) BB showed J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a pair of Jacks) and WON $97.25 (+$47.25 NET) and because of hands like this.... Party Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players BB: $116.95 UTG: $49.04 Hero (MP): $47.50 CO: $35.10 BTN: $24.18 SB: $161.56 Pre-Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP) UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $4.50</font>, 3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $47.50 and is All-In</font>, CO calls $30.60 and is All-In Flop: ($70.95) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In) Turn: ($70.95) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In) River: ($70.95) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 is All-In) Results: $70.95 Pot ($15.40 Rake) Hero showed A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Kings) and WON $55.55 (+$20.45 NET) CO showed T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (two pairs, Kings and Tens) and LOST (-$35.10 NET) and then there are hands like this .... Party Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players UTG: $51.93 Hero (MP): $49.71 CO: $74.31 BTN: $51.77 SB: $62.12 BB: $80.73 Pre-Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (MP) UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="red">CO raises to $13</font>, 3 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $49.71 and is All-In</font>, CO folds Results: $26.75 Pot who knows what villain folded this last hand - I'm betting it was something like TT/JJ tho.
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