88 in SB, limped around preflop.

[dickkemp]

[ QUOTE ]
Those t275 are 25% of our stack.
I'd really like to have them.

[/ QUOTE ]
i might be thinking about this wrong so let me know.
the goal of SNG is to get all the chips. the 275 is 25% of your stack but only 2% of all the chips in play. it seems you are risking too much to gain to little headway in the over all outcome of the SNG.

[eurythmech]

The goal is to maximize your expectation.
Your expectation is largely a function of your stack size.

[sippin_criss]

I think shoving is fine since you are a little short, if you had a bigger stack then I really would rarely shove. I'd prob 50/50 shove/complete in this spot.

[imtav]

Thanks for all the input, guys. Just so you know what happened, I did indeed shove, BB folded, UTG called, and everyone else folded. He turned over KJo and flopped a J to knock me out.

Lets switch spots, if you got 1500 chips and are in UTG's spot (lets pretend you were forced to limp UTG with KJo), would you call this all-in? I want to know if he was right in calling me. All he has seen me do so far is raise preflop, c-bet flop heads up and then fold to a raise.

I don't think his call was +EV long run. In his spot, I'd have to figure I was up against at least an ace, or if lucky I would be at best against an underpair and be racing. I can't see an all-in against 5 active players being a total bluff, and I'd be worried about another caller behind me.

I just like analyzing the play from everyone's perspective when I can to maybe pick up on things I don't see when I make my play.

[sence25]

calling deep AIs with KJo is pretty retarded.

[ger664]

[ QUOTE ]
calling deep AIs with KJo is pretty retarded.

[/ QUOTE ]
As is allowing someone to force you to limp UTG.

[AMT]

You're all nits.

[sence25]

[ QUOTE ]
You're all nits.

[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is that it's a 6.50.
If T9s calls a shove, 88 becomes a complete..

[sence25]

6:06:24 PM AMT: completing is obviously fine when they call real loose, but even 88 is close to a value shove
6:06:35 PM sence: yeah i'd do this in a 33 for sure
6:06:43 PM AMT: im never completing TT in a 6.50, probably not 99 either
6:06:49 PM AMT: i mean in this spot
6:06:53 PM sence: but back when i played 6.5s i ran into biiiiiiiig variance by doing those pushes
6:07:05 PM sence: i think i instapush TT, and 99 is close but a push but 88 hum
6:07:08 PM sence: feels like borderline
6:07:10 PM AMT: yeah
6:07:14 PM AMT: if the table is reasonable though
6:07:17 PM AMT: even at a 6.50
6:07:25 PM AMT: like weak/tight
6:07:35 PM sence: yeah, then you might do it
6:07:49 PM AMT: buy oin is relevant tho
6:07:53 PM sence: but mostly you can sneak to high blinds and steal it out then because ppl play very wrong strategy
6:08:00 PM sence: here you will often flip with dead
6:08:06 PM sence: dunno
6:08:15 PM sence: its profitable but prolly not as much as just completing
6:08:22 PM AMT: the problem is that 88 is so close to have sooo many limping handsw dominated
6:08:32 PM AMT: 87, A2-A8, Kx
6:08:33 PM AMT: etc etc
6:08:39 PM AMT: it pains me to watch those hands see a flop [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
6:08:48 PM AMT: and also with 1500 i wouldnt
6:08:53 PM AMT: the stack is influential
6:08:54 PM sence: yeah
6:08:54 PM sence: right
6:08:58 PM AMT: hes lost almost 1/3 his stack
6:09:01 PM sence: as i wrote pot is already 25%
6:09:14 PM AMT: the reality is
6:10:05 PM AMT: im completing 77, so this is going to be close to neutral regardless, and will come down to table play/loose feel to limping ranges. the more people can limp A2/87 as opposed to QJ/JT/T9 the more i want to shove
6:10:17 PM AMT: and when youre aroumnd these pp's its all straight value
6:10:26 PM AMT: you dont necessarily love a call but you pretty much always expect to be ahead
6:10:51 PM sence: yeah
6:10:57 PM AMT: did that all make sense?
6:11:10 PM sence: it did, and it's really close for me too
6:11:21 PM sence: well ppl will call your push with 55 at times
6:11:25 PM sence: hum
6:11:28 PM AMT: thats the thing too
6:11:36 PM AMT: the range of limping when examining just pps
6:11:39 PM AMT: is sooo much higher in the lower pps
6:11:41 PM AMT: than the ones above
6:11:41 PM sence: i just hate it when i flip against baaaad players
6:11:45 PM AMT: and they never fold em at this level either
6:11:47 PM AMT: yeah
6:11:49 PM AMT: agreed.
6:11:57 PM AMT: you can paste part of this convo if you want to teach the n00bs
6:12:04 PM AMT: free coaching almost [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
6:12:10 PM AMT: in the thread i mean
6:12:17 PM AMT: cause i didnt contribute too much, i just called everyoen a nit

[1outer]

i like to limp this pot, due to your position, you are either going to build a giant pot OOP, I really don't like shove, so I think call is the best choice here. If you limp, you are still OOP and should proceed to play pot carefully. 88 in SB with like 5 limpers is not a favorable spot to be. Try to hit set value.