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  #11  
Old 10-15-2007, 11:50 PM
*TT* *TT* is offline
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Default Re: check raise w/ a wheel/#2/#3 after 3rd draw

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With 75432, this particular solution is betting about 1/3 of the time but check-raising the other 2/3 of time.

Now, you might argue that you exploit your opponents' tendencies better by betting always, but I think you will actually get paid off a lot by check-raising.

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Aren't you missing the times that the villain checks behind, which sadly is quite often?

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I dunno, are you counting all the times it goes bet/fold on the end and you don't get paid off anyway? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I think those times are rare if the villain is pat (its hard to understand the OP, but I think thats what he was saying), he is usually checking behind with with more weak hands which he would not call a c/r for, yet call on the river with some of the hands which he would check behind with.

Can you explain your solver equation, perhaps that would help us find the middle ground.
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  #12  
Old 10-15-2007, 11:51 PM
Biggle10 Biggle10 is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: St Louis - Begging for 2-7
Posts: 716
Default Re: check raise w/ a wheel/#2/#3 after 3rd draw

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

With 75432, this particular solution is betting about 1/3 of the time but check-raising the other 2/3 of time.

Now, you might argue that you exploit your opponents' tendencies better by betting always, but I think you will actually get paid off a lot by check-raising.

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Aren't you missing the times that the villain checks behind, which sadly is quite often?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, are you counting all the times it goes bet/fold on the end and you don't get paid off anyway? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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People fold?
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  #13  
Old 10-16-2007, 12:27 AM
iron81 iron81 is offline
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Default Re: check raise w/ a wheel/#2/#3 after 3rd draw

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People fold?

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They fold sometimes in Stars 2-4. You see bluffs so rarely there its not a bad play.
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  #14  
Old 10-16-2007, 12:34 AM
MarkGritter MarkGritter is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Eagan, MN
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Default Re: check raise w/ a wheel/#2/#3 after 3rd draw

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

With 75432, this particular solution is betting about 1/3 of the time but check-raising the other 2/3 of time.

Now, you might argue that you exploit your opponents' tendencies better by betting always, but I think you will actually get paid off a lot by check-raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't you missing the times that the villain checks behind, which sadly is quite often?

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, are you counting all the times it goes bet/fold on the end and you don't get paid off anyway? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

I think those times are rare if the villain is pat (its hard to understand the OP, but I think thats what he was saying), he is usually checking behind with with more weak hands which he would not call a c/r for, yet call on the river with some of the hands which he would check behind with.
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OP says that his opponent drew one. I agree that 1:0 is a completely different situation than 1:1 and should be mostly bet.



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Can you explain your solver equation, perhaps that would help us find the middle ground.

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I don't have a simple explanation, I just have an (unpublished) result. When you put the best 26 1-card draws (7432-8763 plus 2345-2456) up against each other, a game-theoretic optimal strategy for the first player is results in the mix summarized above.

Let's see if we can come up with a silly simple example. Suppose there are 5 bets in the pot. Your opponent has 7432 and:

jams his 5's and 6's
bet-call or calls a bet with his 8's and 9's
bet-fold or calls a bet with his T
checks behind or calls a single bet with JQKA
checks behind or folds 2's and 3's
bluff-fold or folds 4's and 7's

How does check-raising 75432 compare with betting it?
Opponent card, Net value of KR (approx)
5, 0
6, 0
8, +1
9, +1
T, 0
J, -1
Q, -1
K, -1
A, -1
2, 0
3, 0
4, +1
7, +1

That would make it a dead heat between check-raising and betting out. If he calls more (say with deuces) then you are better off betting. If he bets more (any pair, or jacks) or bet/calls more (with a T) then you are better off check-raising.
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  #15  
Old 10-16-2007, 02:39 AM
2461Badugi 2461Badugi is offline
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Default Re: check raise w/ a wheel/#2/#3 after 3rd draw

Checkraising is fun and should make money, but the important thing isn't the value. It's all the OOP free showdowns you get later.
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