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#11
12-10-2006, 04:05 PM
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Re: Hold \'Em or Fold \'Em (part 1)
Well, in this hand BB could have a 6, until the river that is. So perhaps it is correct to bet. I folded all these fwiw.
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#13
12-10-2006, 04:30 PM
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Re: Hold \'Em or Fold \'Em (part 1)
[ QUOTE ]
Well, in this hand BB could have any pair or ace high [/ QUOTE ] What's more is that 7 river is a great card to value bet because GSs just paired up. And honestly, the majority of ss players have no hand reading ability and will not be putting u on a hand range. Especially ones that just a.) call the turn with a T b.) call the turn w/ a GS.
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#14
12-10-2006, 04:55 PM
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Re: Hold \'Em or Fold \'Em (part 1)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Nice post ILOVE. I think that when 3tabling 6-max I tend to get into bet bet bet mode and sometimes miss opportunities to c/c and make money. I probably should just play 2 tables but you know I get greedy. It's definitely a c/c for all the reasons you mention. One question to ask is "what hand is he calling with that I beat?" If there isn't an obvious one, c/c to induce a bluff or a bet from a smaller pair. [/ QUOTE ] Wow I can't possibly disagree more. So he's part of the 2% pool of players who wait till the river with trips...good for him. He has Ace high a ton which he's going to call with but not bet. Moreover if people were that good at valuebetting it'd be correct to sexy a helluva lot more. [/ QUOTE ] yeah good point in bold. its nice to say that people valuebet any pair because they think you have ace high, but in reality you only think that because you remember all the times you check call ace high and lose. if it were true that they value bet any pair, then like you said c/c cannot be the advice to give - it's c/r. btw OP post the limit.
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#15
12-10-2006, 05:45 PM
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Re: Hold \'Em or Fold \'Em (part 1)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Nice post ILOVE. I think that when 3tabling 6-max I tend to get into bet bet bet mode and sometimes miss opportunities to c/c and make money. I probably should just play 2 tables but you know I get greedy. It's definitely a c/c for all the reasons you mention. One question to ask is "what hand is he calling with that I beat?" If there isn't an obvious one, c/c to induce a bluff or a bet from a smaller pair. [/ QUOTE ] Wow I can't possibly disagree more. So he's part of the 2% pool of players who wait till the river with trips...good for him. He has Ace high a ton which he's going to call with but not bet. Moreover if people were that good at valuebetting it'd be correct to sexy a helluva lot more. [/ QUOTE ] yeah good point in bold. its nice to say that people valuebet any pair because they think you have ace high, but in reality you only think that because you remember all the times you check call ace high and lose. if it were true that they value bet any pair, then like you said c/c cannot be the advice to give - it's c/r. btw OP post the limit. [/ QUOTE ] interesting how a bet/fold turned into a c/c and now it's a check-raise! bananas!
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#16
12-10-2006, 05:55 PM
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Re: Hold \'Em or Fold \'Em (part 1)
Reads??
1. Call. I don't ever fold TPTK to tricky river play getting over 10-1. You will find a weaker King or a bluff at least 10% of the time. 2. I might c/c to that 3rd heart... tough decision here. I'm probably biased to c/c because of his raise 3. I call. Are these all the same person??
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#17
12-10-2006, 08:38 PM
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Re: Hold \'Em or Fold \'Em (part 1)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Nice post ILOVE. I think that when 3tabling 6-max I tend to get into bet bet bet mode and sometimes miss opportunities to c/c and make money. I probably should just play 2 tables but you know I get greedy. It's definitely a c/c for all the reasons you mention. One question to ask is "what hand is he calling with that I beat?" If there isn't an obvious one, c/c to induce a bluff or a bet from a smaller pair. [/ QUOTE ] Wow I can't possibly disagree more. So he's part of the 2% pool of players who wait till the river with trips...good for him. He has Ace high a ton which he's going to call with but not bet. Moreover if people were that good at valuebetting it'd be correct to sexy a helluva lot more. [/ QUOTE ] yeah good point in bold. its nice to say that people valuebet any pair because they think you have ace high, but in reality you only think that because you remember all the times you check call ace high and lose. if it were true that they value bet any pair, then like you said c/c cannot be the advice to give - it's c/r. btw OP post the limit. [/ QUOTE ] interesting how a bet/fold turned into a c/c and now it's a check-raise! bananas! [/ QUOTE ] Miles and McGahee, I am not saying that the river is a check/call, I am just saying that against certain opponents check/calling will be the best line. The best line for the hero with 99's is impossible to discern since we have no opponent read. My idea was very simple, If the villain will bet any hand hes gonna call with, value betting ceases to be the best line. And I do think that a common mistake that a good player makes when oop on the river is value betting against an opponent who will bet any hand he wouldve called with. A lot of these types exist online and its very valuable to recognize them. In live play I seldom run into these types. The point of my post was that 99's is not an automatic value bet here. I agree with no read, bet/call is the play. I thought that was obvious and wasnt worth talking about.
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#18
12-10-2006, 08:50 PM
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Re: Hold \'Em or Fold \'Em (part 1)
[ QUOTE ]
I thought that was obvious and wasnt worth talking about. [/ QUOTE ] God forbid you state the obvious.
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#19
12-10-2006, 09:01 PM
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Re: Hold \'Em or Fold \'Em (part 1)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I thought that was obvious and wasnt worth talking about. [/ QUOTE ] God forbid you state the obvious. [/ QUOTE ] Ha! Well isnt it more fun to talk about the exceptions to the rules? Especially when the exception I'm talking about comes up very often online since there are so many players that just love to bet. Wouldnt it be great if you always correctly recognized those situations, thus being able to maximize your EV on the river while avoiding the nasty bet/call line? I dont always recognize these situations I would say that atleast once per session I value bet a river trying to get a call from a certain hand range not realizing that the opponent I'm up against will bet, If I check, with every single one of the hands Im attacking.
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#20
12-10-2006, 11:12 PM
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Re: Hold \'Em or Fold \'Em (part 1)
[ QUOTE ]
Also, in your QQ's hand, if you cant trust your opponent enough to fold on the river, then you probably shouldve check/called the turn. [/ QUOTE ] Please elaborate.
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