AA

bobhalford · #1 12-08-2006, 03:36 PM

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, MP calls, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, SB calls.

Turn: (5 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP calls, SB raises, Hero ??

RunDownHouse · #2 12-08-2006, 03:40 PM

I call down. 3betting seems really bad because, even with the CC, it takes a decent hand for him to CC in the SB, and way too much of that "decent hand" range includes broadways, nearly every one of which has you crushed on the turn. you're getting 9:1 to spike trips or a better two-pair, and that combined with rare times you're ahead lets me call dwon comfortably.

Reads really help turn this into a fold, because the times you're up against JT/KJ/KT you're always going to have to call the river when one of those hit.

danzasmack · #3 12-08-2006, 03:42 PM

Yeah with no reads +MP tagging along I go into my call down shell here

Disconnected · #4 12-08-2006, 04:02 PM

I think calling down is the right play, but I could be convinced of a fold. That's a strong move from SB, and even though your hand is somewhat hidden, he's got to figure that the board hit you, and still he checkraises the (small) field.

But I wouldn't want to give up. Depending on SB (I know we don't have a read), it's still possible that we're ahead. I really am hoping more for a 2 or a Q on the river. You've got good pot odds on the turn to call hoping for improvement, although a lot of the ways you "improve," you don't pull ahead of villain, so unless a queen falls on the river, you'll have to be careful and won't be able to get the max if you're ahead.. On the river, you're going to have good enough pot odds to call for the times you're ahead even if the river blanks, I think (villain has AK, KQ, etc).

Let's say you call the turn and MP calls behind. River blanks and SB checks. What's hero's action? I think it's easy, but want to see.

RunDownHouse · #5 12-08-2006, 04:53 PM

Uh, I guess I bet, mostly out of reflex. But if the river is a complete blank and SB checks, then almost always he's scared of his hand, which means no way he's got 2 pair or better. That weights his hand so heavily to something like a pair + draw that I bet it.

Nick C · #6 12-08-2006, 04:59 PM

It's not looking good, but we can hope SB just spiked a king. (I'm not so optimistic there.) More than that, we're hoping we have sufficient outs to chase.

I suppose I'd probably call one bet UI on the river as well, but I wouldn't be happy about doing it.

Blue Lagoon · #7 12-08-2006, 06:17 PM

I think we need to call. We have 8 outs against two pair.

Maybe he has a straight, with Q9, but AQ is unlikely (he didn't reraise preflop). So we have 3 outs (three Q remaining) to win, not tie, a 10 bets pot (9 + 1 river bet).

Against a set, we have six outs (2 aces, 4 Q).

I cannot fold this one.

Carmine · #8 12-08-2006, 07:05 PM

Folding???...WTF. Bob are you posting this hand because you were considering releasing this hand?

Jiggymike · #9 12-08-2006, 07:33 PM

This is an easy call. 1) You might be ahead to AK, which a donky SB would not 3bet (or a worse hand with a K). 2) You have lots of outs vs 2 pair and even outs vs. a set. No flush out so a Q gives you a split at worse.

bobhalford · #10 12-08-2006, 08:31 PM

I folded this hand, figuring that I was toast to to QT or AQ. I had outs vs. JT or KJ though. If an Ace fell, I would probably lose to a straight, and likely a Q on the river would result in a chop (though I'd win most of the time). I usually call this, and then another bet on the river. It was just such a strong play by the SB that I figured to lose even if my hand improved. There was also the other player to worry about. I probably should have given more weight to my two pair outs and called, but I folded like a p*ssy.