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  #1  
Old 05-28-2006, 12:53 AM
chucky chucky is offline
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Default Horrible call of re-raise on flop?

I called the reraise on the flop because I had 9 redraw outs. I feel if any of my outs had hit I could have check raised for the rest of my stack. Should I have folded the reraise?
Party Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
10 players
Converter


Stack sizes:
UTG: $21.85
UTG+1: $16.30
UTG+2: $51.32
MP1: $4.55
MP2: $16.50
MP3: $26.90
CO: $21.04
Button: $24.50
SB: $43.65
phanekim: $25


Pre-flop: (10 players) phanekim is BB with Jh; 9c; 8s; 6h;
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, phanekim checks.


Flop: 9d; 5d; 9h; ($1.75, 7 players)
SB checks, phanekim bets $1.7, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 raises to $8.5, 2 folds, phanekim calls, MP1 calls all-in $2.6.


Turn: Kh; ($23.05, 2 players + 1 all-in - Main pot: $14.65, Sidepot 1: $8.4)
phanekim checks, MP2 is all-in $7.75, phanekim folds.
Uncalled bets: $7.75 returned to MP2.


River: 5h; ($23.05, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $14.65, Sidepot 1: $8.4)



Results:
Final pot: $23.05
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  #2  
Old 05-28-2006, 01:56 AM
Johnny#5 Johnny#5 is offline
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Default Re: Horrible call of re-raise on flop?

If you call that flop raise then you probably should call the turn bet too since you still have the same outs against 95 and 55, plus if you're up against just A9 you now have flush and gutshot outs.

Myself, I would have folded to the flop raise.
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  #3  
Old 05-28-2006, 02:18 AM
chucky chucky is offline
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Default Re: Horrible call of re-raise on flop?

I dont have the same outs on the turn. On the turn i may be drawing dead if he has a King. I was 75% he had either 55 or 95 when he reraised. The problem is I am oop. if he goes first and checks, then I can push the king.
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  #4  
Old 05-28-2006, 02:41 AM
Johnny#5 Johnny#5 is offline
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Default Re: Horrible call of re-raise on flop?

95 and 55 aren't folding no matter what you do, not with those short stacks. Which is why your flop call was terrible, you didn't have enough implied odds. You were barely getting 2-1 when he didn't even have 1/3 pot left after he raised. The flop call was -EV anyway, all I was saying is that to be consistent, you probably should call the turn getting 4-1 if you call the flop barely getting 2-1. He probably doesn't have a K but that is neither here nor there. Hell he might not even be full, who knows.

You could boat up and chop with him, you could turn a boat only to have him river a bigger one. The whole idea of getting involved sucks anyway you look at it, hence the easy fold to the flop raise. If he had $50 behind that you knew he'd push in, then okay. But not with 7 or 8 or whatever he actually had.
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Old 05-28-2006, 06:12 AM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: Horrible call of re-raise on flop?

Let's look at all the factors in this all too familiar and posted about situation:

1) unraised pot - no reason to go broke with anything less than a great hand on a great flop

2) OOP - add this to above, which means anyone could have anything, then this means check and not build a pot. The problem is that with every card that comes that doesn't help you, you won't know if it really helped someone in position either, or if they are just bluffing or betting a similar/worse 9. This is especially true when you have built a pot and the river comes another card that doesn't help you or an opponent and you are exposed to either a bet or a bluff raise, and won't know if is by a hand that beats you or not.

So in an unraised pot OOP, just check and fold unless against a super short stack who has bet perhaps. Even in a raised pot, the right thing with several players here would be to check and peel one card. If it helps then bet the turn or c/f (or c/r someone you are sure would bet). But again, being OOP sucks because if you fill the turn and a higher card you don't have comes on the river, then again you are exposed to being bluffed or making a bad call.

3) sidecards - in the specific situation as mentioned above, one player has 55 and the other one has the other 9 almost surely. So you can't currently beat 55, and are basically gambling with the other 9 to see who can hit a kicker that is good, assuming you don't both brick and dump to 55. And another important factor is that you only have 1 overcard, which means that if you hit on the turn you can be drawn out on on the river, and you can't beat the other 9 if all he has is an A kicker and you both miss.


So yes the answer is you should have passed, even if you actually won the pot.
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  #6  
Old 05-28-2006, 09:56 AM
greatwhite greatwhite is offline
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Default Re: Horrible call of re-raise on flop?

You should definately get out of this hand, especially since the other person called. Although if you make a full house on the turn you'll take the lead, someone with a 9 will often make a better house on the river.
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  #7  
Old 05-28-2006, 02:01 PM
RoundTower RoundTower is offline
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Default Re: Horrible call of re-raise on flop?

I really really hate the turn fold. Probably you should fold to the raise on the flop, though it's not a terrible time to gamble.
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  #8  
Old 05-28-2006, 05:06 PM
Ribbo Ribbo is offline
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Default Re: Horrible call of re-raise on flop?

You do not play J986 preflop to hit 99x flops.
You play J986 to hit T7x flops. Until you realise this you will syphon away money at the table. Whilst 99x flops are nice, you will often win small pots (when everyone folds) and lose big pots (when you go to war with 9xxx) when you bet the flop. You must remind yourself why you play certain hands. One of my sayings for PLO is "it is better to come 9th in a pot than 2nd". 2nd place always loses the most money.
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