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  #61  
Old 12-01-2007, 02:53 PM
Rick Nebiolo Rick Nebiolo is offline
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Default Re: Perfect example of why we need to actively fight Islamo-facism

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So then Japan would not have been justified in actively fighting American imperialism.

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American Imperialism? In the Western Pacific against Japan's interest? Or did we take actions to counter Japanese imperialism (albeit minimal prior to 1941)?


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Why, then, because some people were calling for the death of one person in Sudan does that become a justification for "active[ly] fighting Islamo-fascism"?

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Combine this incident along with thousands of others and the stated intentions of Islamic leaders and it seems we are headed toward an epic clash of civilizations and cultures.

In "The End of Faith" Sam Harris noted that when Salman Rushdie was condemned to death by the Ayatollah Khomeini in 1989 after publishing "Satanic Versus" there was little or no "moderate Islam" speaking out against this decree. That's because in Islam apostasy or speaking out against Islam justifies a death sentence. Harris contends there is no "moderate Islam", just an Islam that previously didn't have enough power to carry out it's goals (essentially to subjugate the entire world).

Unfortunately that's changing.

~ Rick
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  #62  
Old 12-01-2007, 02:54 PM
blufish blufish is offline
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Default Re: Perfect example of why we need to actively fight Islamo-facism

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There seem to be a lot of people in this forum who believe that if we just leave the Muslim world alone they'll stop attacking us.

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What we actually believe

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Who is "we"?
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  #63  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:13 PM
AlexM AlexM is offline
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Default Re: Perfect example of why we need to actively fight Islamo-facism

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No one is saying that America is evil,

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Really? What forum are you reading?

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2+2 Politics. You?
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  #64  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:16 PM
AlexM AlexM is offline
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Default Re: Perfect example of why we need to actively fight Islamo-facism

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There seem to be a lot of people in this forum who believe that if we just leave the Muslim world alone they'll stop attacking us.

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What we actually believe

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Who is "we"?

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The people who want to stop aggressing on the Muslim world.
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  #65  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:32 PM
Moseley Moseley is offline
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Default Re: Perfect example of why we need to actively fight Islamo-facism

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There seem to be a lot of people in this forum who believe that if we just leave the Muslim world alone they'll stop attacking us.

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What we actually believe

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Who is "we"?

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The people who want to stop aggressing on the Muslim world.

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The day after 9/11/01, 90% of the world was behind the U.S. Iranian leaders were the first to publicly denounce the attack and offer any support they could. The people marched in the streets of Iran in support of the U.S.A.

Bush blundered away a perfect opportunity to unite the world.

Now we are hated more than ever in our history.
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  #66  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:39 PM
Borodog Borodog is offline
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Default Re: Perfect example of why we need to actively fight Islamo-facism

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There seem to be a lot of people in this forum who believe that if we just leave the Muslim world alone they'll stop attacking us.

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What we actually believe

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Who is "we"?

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The people who want to stop aggressing on the Muslim world.

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The day after 9/11/01, 90% of the world was behind the U.S. Iranian leaders were the first to publicly denounce the attack and offer any support they could. The people marched in the streets of Iran in support of the U.S.A.

Bush blundered away a perfect opportunity to unite the world.

Now we are hated more than ever in our history.

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This was not a blunder. This was design.

Joseph Schumpeter, writing of Rome:

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Here is the classic example of that kind of insincerity in both foreign and domestic affairs which permeates not only avowed motives but also probably the conscious motives of the actors themselves—of that policy which pretends to aspire to peace but unerringly generates war, the policy of continual preparation for war, the policy of meddlesome interventionism.
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There was no corner of the known world where some interest was not alleged to be in danger or under actual attack. If the interests were not Roman, they were those of Rome’s allies; and if Rome had no allies, then allies would be invented. When it was utterly impossible to contrive such an interest—why, then it was the national honor that had been insulted.
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The fight was always invested with an aura of legality. Rome was always being attacked by evil-minded neighbors, always fighting for a breathing space. The whole world was pervaded by a host of enemies, and it was manifestly Rome’s duty to guard against their indubitably aggressive designs. They were enemies who only waited to fall on the Roman people.

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  #67  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:40 PM
blufish blufish is offline
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Default Re: Perfect example of why we need to actively fight Islamo-facism

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There seem to be a lot of people in this forum who believe that if we just leave the Muslim world alone they'll stop attacking us.

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What we actually believe

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Who is "we"?

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The people who want to stop aggressing on the Muslim world.

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Wouldn't just about everyone want to stop agressing on the Muslim world, as you say? Whether they agree with pre-emptive measures or not?

The people who do not have a problem with striking first, find the risk that comes from doing nothing unacceptable.

I also see why people think pre-emptive action is the wrong choice.

But the reality is the reality. Do you drive a vehicle with an internal combustion engine? Do you fly? Does the U.S. have strategic interest in having it's presence felt in foreign lands? Would it bother you if you lost an American city by using a passive approach? Or just another 3 thousand. Or 50 thousand. Where is the risk accpetable?
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  #68  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:56 PM
tomdemaine tomdemaine is offline
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Default Re: Perfect example of why we need to actively fight Islamo-facism

You "fight" islamofacism by spreading rationality and consistent moral values to think that you can stop violence by increasing violence is stupid. How did you feel when the US was attacked and 3000 people we killed? You wanted vengence right? You wanted to go over there and rip the heads off of every single one of the people that had anything to do with it. Imagine how the people over there feel when 100s of thousands of their friends, families and colleagues are killed by americans. Have the decency and the empathy to accept that someone has to step up and stop the violence.
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  #69  
Old 12-01-2007, 04:10 PM
pergesu pergesu is offline
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Default Re: Perfect example of why we need to actively fight Islamo-facism

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http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/i...=22&amp;sp=true

Cliff notes: British teacher and her class name a teddy bear Mohammad, mobs form in Sudan demanding that she be killed.

There seem to be a lot of people in this forum who believe that if we just leave the Muslim world alone they'll stop attacking us. But do you really expect people who are willing to kill someone for merely naming a teddy bear Mohammad are going to just leave us alone? Of course not. These people are completely irrational and are bent on destroying Western civilization as we know it.

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If you went out and fought everybody that WANTED to hurt you would be dead. Please factor in the chances that they atually are able to do anything to you.



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Tell it to the families of the 215 colleagues of mine that died on 9/11.

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Don't forget to send care packages to the families of the nearly 4k US American soldiers who have died since then!
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  #70  
Old 12-01-2007, 04:25 PM
AlexM AlexM is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Imaginationland
Posts: 5,200
Default Re: Perfect example of why we need to actively fight Islamo-facism

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There seem to be a lot of people in this forum who believe that if we just leave the Muslim world alone they'll stop attacking us.

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What we actually believe

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Who is "we"?

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The people who want to stop aggressing on the Muslim world.

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Wouldn't just about everyone want to stop agressing on the Muslim world, as you say?

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Obviously not.

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But the reality is the reality.

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Yes, and those who support this crap are failing to see the reality that they're being tricked into it solely for the purpose of giving government more power.

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Do you drive a vehicle with an internal combustion engine? Do you fly?

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Irrelevant.

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Does the U.S. have strategic interest in conquering the entire world?

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Would it bother you if you lost the Moon!!!!!! by using a passive approach?

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Where is the risk accpetable?

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It's very, very simple. Stop aggressing on them as we have been doing for the last 50+ years and actually make an attempt to see if peace is possible. The most likely explanation for their behavior by far is that they're pissed off about what we're doing to their countries. Pull out, let them know we're serious about pulling out and then see how they respond. If at that point they attack us again, then there will be some justification for military action. Until that happens though, we're just conquering foreign nations and imposing our will on them.

If you're so keen on attacking people, why not attack Canada? What if they launch a terrorist attack on us next week that kills 10 million?!?!?! As our neighbors, they're a much bigger risk, so we better get them before they have a chance!!!
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