Stud 8: simple question...

[Micturition Man]

Say first to act is a 5 raising into something like 6 J 7 A A 9 3.

You are the second A with (64)A with a live two-flush.

Assume all players are competent.

Is your hand really worth playing here?

Consider you have an A dead, you have no straight potential, and the 5 up presumably has a solid hand and possibly a very big hand.

Also there is the possibility of 3-way action which will be bad for you since I specified all players are competent.

I am starting to downgrade non-wheel and non-3flush A-low hands in stud 8 when I am not opening the pot.

[SweetLuckyMe]

If the 5 was an average player and the game were normal I'd raise it every time. Unless there are multiple fish behind me who will also overcall with junk (and who will overcall a rr with marginal hands), then I'll occasionally overcall, but that's quite rare. On a rare occasion I'll fold it, but the 5 would have to be a very tight mouse with stats of something like 23/2 and the other A would have to be a really loose aggro player who I'd be afraid to get into a raising war with him holding something foolish like TT-A.

If you start surrendering hands this good I'd think your vpip would have to dip below 20%, which is way too tight for the typical game.

[Phat Mack]

[ QUOTE ]


I am starting to downgrade non-wheel and non-3flush A-low hands in stud 8 when I am not opening the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great question. Given the line up, I think you could consider tossin the hand, but it would bring up other questions.

If you want to throw A64s away, a 95%ile hand, do you really want to play in that game?

And if you throw it away, when are you going to get a situation to play? And will you be playing often enough to overcome the rake and antes?

There are a lot of games where I don't really like the A7 & A6 hands, but if I think I can get heads up on an early street, I play them. You say all the players are competent. Stud8 isn't all that much fun when all the players are competent. I think I'd either try to make something out of this hand, or leave the table.

[SweetLuckyMe]

[ QUOTE ]
Stud8 isn't all that much fun when all the players are competent. I think I'd either try to make something out of this hand, or leave the table.

[/ QUOTE ] Truly excellent point.

I just played 112 hands of 3/6 three handed an neither of the other two players ever raised 3rd st. Not once. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] Find a decent game and it's sooo easy. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Andy B]

Phat makes some good points. It would never occur to me not to play this hand. I'm unlikely to find myself in a very tight game any time soon anyway.

[TStoneMBD]

ive always treated A64 like it was the nuts. maybe im wrong to be doing that but it seems like a pretty big hand, even against a 3 card wheel.

with a dead ace:

As 6h 4h 165035 240357 259244 399 187061 47199 768 0.512
5s 4c 3c 153469 259244 240357 399 164140 49832 768 0.488

jam baby, jam!

[HOWMANY]

There are two dead Aces right? I honestly feel like I play too many deadish hands in Stud 8 and I still think this is a fold. If there's only one dead Ace then I make it 2 bets because against decent players I don't call a completion with hands that have an A up.

[Amanjyaku]

Just one dead ace.