KK (with re-draw) vs. a possible made straight or flush

[DP388]

20/180 - Villian is a loose donk who has called large raises and cold called re-raises with very vulnerable hands (i.e. KQs) and will chase a draw. Doesn't mean he necessarily has one here, but his flop call was pretty fast. Note: I have Kd

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed)

SB (t1595)
Hero (t2585)
UTG (t7505)
UTG+1 (t1825)
MP1 (t1900)
MP2 (t3525)
MP3 (t1305)
CO (t3900)
Button (t3085)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, CO calls t50, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t250</font>, CO calls t200.

Flop: (t525) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t300</font>, CO calls t300.

Turn: (t1125) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Hero: ?

I've already decided my flop bet is too small because I need to be charging a player like this the maximum since he is likely calling, but I was trying to control the pot size.

But I'm really wanting feedback on the turn play in this hand and other situations where possible draws are made.

A check here gets bluffed at often. A small bet will be perceived as weak and a larger bet only gets a worse hand to fold or wastes chips if villian pushes.

It feels like c/f is weak, but it still might be correct. What is the optimal line on the turn and/or river?

[registrar]

I'd probably check shove there, with that read.

[glass_onion]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably check shove there, with that read.

[/ QUOTE ]

[gholizad]

I like the check shove play here

[DP388]

We're not at all worried he just made a flush? I obviously don't want to fear MUTB, but it seems pretty consistent with his previous willingness to chase.

Is check/shove designed to get him to fold a straight? I don't think this type of vilian folds it. Maybe he folds 2 pair here...maybe.

I like the idea of it, but I'm not quite sure what it is accomplishing.

[twonine29]

I don't like the idea...i think you misplayed the hand on the flop, and basically know you're beat on the turn. You have outs, so you check and if he bets small enough (in the 600 range) you could call and try and improve (or maybe you have the best hand). Why throw away your 2100 chips when it's pretty likely you're beat after that scary turn?

I'd fold to a push or potsize+ bet if i felt i was beat.

Edit: In the heat of the moment, I'd probably bet 1100 on the turn and call any push.

[DP388]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd probably check shove there, with that read.

[/ QUOTE ]

For what reasons?

[shaundeeb]

c/shoving sucks I usually c/c here which I will do with nut flush sometimes and then lead river depending on card or c/f rarely c/c the river.

[registrar]

For the reason that I'm not going to fold if he bets, and if I don't fold the turn, I can't see how we can fold the river and that he's likely to bluff if I PF raise, bet flop and then freeze on a three flush turn. The shoving is optional - it depends what he bets and how and my read. I don't expect him to fold better hands but I think that he's not calling a second barrel with anything that we beat but may well fire himself with hands that we beat.

[shaundeeb]

registrar it's better to bet/fold turn then c/shove even with Kd.