The Importance of Position: Hold'em vs. PLO

Motorcycle Mike · #1 07-13-2007, 01:08 AM

As a NLHE 6 max player that has recently converted to PLO, I have been reading as much of the limited material out there as possible. One of the books most recommended was: How Good is your Pot Limit Omaha, by Stewart Reuben.

In this book there is a hand analysis on page 22. In answer 1 he states that, "Position is MUCH LESS important in Omaha High than it is in Hold'em or Omaha High-Low.

WTF????

Without question position is important in both games, but is this really the case???

Ribbo · #2 07-13-2007, 01:09 AM

He is a fruitcake, just ignore him.

TrainHardDieHard · #3 07-13-2007, 01:13 AM

wow. position is more important in omaha than pretty much any other game. what a retard

Nitilism · #4 07-13-2007, 12:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
wow. position is more important in omaha than pretty much any other game. what a retard

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless you're a stortstacking ratholing bastard, that is.

Troll_Inc · #5 07-13-2007, 01:45 PM

Look, it's very important in big bet poker. If you ignore position in either form, you will lose money. So does it matter if position is 2.0 fold important in PLO, but only 1.75x in NLHE?

A problem with a lot of the Ciaffone/Reuben advice is that they just "tell you the answer" but don't go into any sort of proof. Did they happen upon this after many years of poker? Or did they get out their abbacusses and calculate it?

http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/c...right0707.html

CrushinFelt · #6 07-13-2007, 02:12 PM

I'll read this later. My unexploitable strategy. Raise preflop, call any reraise, c/r any two pair+ to get all in.

Motorcycle Mike · #7 07-13-2007, 02:58 PM

Troll,

I know that position is important in both games, or any big bet poker game. In fact, I felt one of my biggest advances was realizing the power of position.

What I was asking though, is that a noted auther AND high stakes player, who is probably much better than the both of us put together, made a statement to the contrary. Now grant it I know he is talking about a different game (full ring) at a different time, but a statement like that is pretty strong.

It did get me thinking though, and I'm wondering if what he was talking about was since in PLO one hand is a much smaller favorite over another possible hand, the need for position is not as great an advantage as it is in holdem where somebody with KK is in very bad shape against somebody with AA. Basically in NLHE you have one hand working, whereas in PLO you can have several hands working (made and drawing), so maybe that negates a little bit of the positional disadvantage.

I'm not saying I agree with his thinking. I'm just saying that I'm trying to figure out what his reasoning is behind that statement.

Ribbo · #8 07-13-2007, 03:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Troll,

I know that position is important in both games, or any big bet poker game. In fact, I felt one of my biggest advances was realizing the power of position.

What I was asking though, is that a noted auther AND high stakes player, who is probably much better than the both of us put together, made a statement to the contrary. Now grant it I know he is talking about a different game (full ring) at a different time, but a statement like that is pretty strong.

It did get me thinking though, and I'm wondering if what he was talking about was since in PLO one hand is a much smaller favorite over another possible hand, the need for position is not as great an advantage as it is in holdem where somebody with KK is in very bad shape against somebody with AA. Basically in NLHE you have one hand working, whereas in PLO you can have several hands working (made and drawing), so maybe that negates a little bit of the positional disadvantage.

I'm not saying I agree with his thinking. I'm just saying that I'm trying to figure out what his reasoning is behind that statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you severely overestimate how good you have to play poker to be able to write a book on it.

Troll_Inc · #9 07-13-2007, 03:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'll read this later. My unexploitable strategy. Raise preflop, call any reraise, c/r any two pair+ to get all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is your unexploitable strategy unexploitable if you and opponent are at 250 bb?

How about if you are OOP vs a passive opponent when one draw hits on the turn and you are both at 150bb?

Do you have an unexploitable straregy for that Rolf?

alavet · #10 07-13-2007, 03:10 PM

i can just suppose he was saying about better Pot control in position you get cause its a POT Limited game, and he wasnt saying it about OMAHA in general