Absolute Certainty

[DeadlyGambit]

Does it exist? Is anything absolute?

My friend and I were debating this a couple weeks ago, and lately I've been thinking about it alot. My friend argued that NOTHING is absolute. That is, we can never be certain that something is undoubtedly and absolutely true. However, I think that some things can be known with absolute certainty, namely those that are in the realm of mathematics and deductive logic. For example, 2+2 ALWAYS equals 4, or "All A are B and All B are C, therfore All A are C". These things we know with absolute certainty, right? Granted these examples seem, I don't really know how to put it, far removed from everyday reality. Like looking at an argument form such as the one above and saying it is absolutely true seems far different than observing something in the natural world and being able to say the same thing about it. I'm not quite sure of what I'm trying to say here [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img].

Anyway, what are your thoughts on absolute certainty? Can we ever know anything for sure?

-Matt

[Peter666]

"My friend argued that NOTHING is absolute."

Is he absolutely sure about that?

[Siegmund]

I tend to see it the same way as the OP does.

The only problem with referring to real-world events in absolutes is that people have a tendency to leave off a few conditions, and give only the "then" part of what's really an if-then statement.

For instance, "There are at least two cards of the same suit in every poker hand" is a real-world statement based on the mathematical fact "if five cards are chosen from a standard 52-card pack (thirteen of each of four suits), there will be at least two cards of the same suit among the chosen cards" -- but the real-world possibility of running across a poker game with a bug, or playing badugi, or a defective deck gets glossed over in everyday speech to save time.

There are a heck of a lot of absolutely true statements out there, but most of them are if-thens and the real world sometimes fails to satisfy the if, and the real flaw in our reason is assuming the "if" is always satisfied.

[bunny]

I dont know that mathematical statements would satisfy your friend. Perhaps you have made a deductive error.

I cant see how he could disagree with the claim you have absolute knowledge of your subjective experiences though. You know what it's like for you to experience pain. You know what it feels like to see blue. Etcetera. I think these are examples of absolute certainty - though not very helpful ones as they dont provide common ground with anyone else.

[Piers]

Absolute certainty is a state of mind. Most people are absolutely certain of a lot of stuff, much of it incorrect.

[LA_Price]

The statement "nothing is absolute" is an absolute statement is it not? So doesn't that nullify itself?

[Matt R.]

I exist?

[NotReady]

[ QUOTE ]

Does it exist? Is anything absolute?


[/ QUOTE ]

Philosophy usually distinguishes between objective certainty (that which is demonstrable) and subjective (what I think is certain). Objective certainty is only possible with what Kant called analytic a priori statements which are basically tautological or definitional. His example was all bodies are extended. Similar statements are those of logic and though Kant didn't agree, I think the same is true of math. The problem is all are either abstract(logic and math) or trivial (definitions). The other kind of statement Kant identified he call a priori synthetic which would include scientific statements and any statement about the external world(excluding definitional).

There have been recent attacks on this distinction but I think they are useful as starting points. I would agree with bunny that subjective experience gives absolute certainty about our mental or emotional states, but I don't think we can obtain demonstrable objective certainty about the external world. Subjective certainty is obtainable about many things, even that which is false.

We are sinful humans in rebellion against God - we gave up the possibility of real certainty apart from God a long time ago. Our angst, doubts, fears and uncertainties are the result of that rebellion. Even Christians "see through a glass" darkly - but we are being renewed into "the true knowledge of Him who loved us".

[Subfallen]

Wittgenstein laid siege to certainty like no one before or since...so read him if you want to get a feel for the philosophical maturity necessary to really approach the subject.

Be warned, however...the man was a genius of the very highest order, and it hardly bodes well for his aspiring reader to note that,

[ QUOTE ]
It [the Tracticus Logico-Philisophicus] was examined by [Bertrand] Russell and [G.E.] Moore; at the end of the thesis defence, Wittgenstein clapped the two examiners on the shoulder and said, "Don't worry, I know you'll never understand it."

[/ QUOTE ]

[t.conley]

I think the key here is the word absolute. Nobody contains complete knowledge (though I admit that this could be wrong because by stating this I am also admitting my own knowledge is incomplete). But instead of just giving up on the whole idea of absolutes, you must weigh the evidence and make the best educated guess. An example is that I have found that there are some things I do not know and have also found that this is the case with everyone I have ever met. Therefore it is my best guess that no human contains complete knowledge. Am I absolutely sure of this? No, but evidence does seem to point to this being an absolute, thus I do believe it is rational of me to both believe in absolutes and be absolutely sure of it (or as least as absolute as is possible for me).