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#11
09-26-2007, 12:37 PM
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Re: Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet???
[ QUOTE ]
When I read the title I knew my answer would be no. I would play this passively as well, assuming I'm WA/WB. Just be careful and don't let the good player try and push you out of this pot so he can get the other player to himself. [/ QUOTE ] 
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#12
09-26-2007, 01:04 PM
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Re: Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet???
UTG doesn't have AA for sure, i know him enough and he won't just call the flop, he would have 3bet with AA. The calling station can have AA but it would be very strange for him to not 3bet the flop and donk the turn... SO i really think AA isn't in play in this hand. It's QQ that is the real danger for my hand i think.
The pot is so big that i'm not sure i can leave UTG in the pot with let's say AQ. But i'm not sure it's the best play.
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#13
09-27-2007, 10:02 AM
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Re: Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet???
even though we might be WB, i think we should protect our hand from UTG, who most likely has a Q and is drawing to 5 outs. the pot is 10BB now, so i think the equity we gain by forcing UTG out compensates what we lose if SB 3-bets.
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#14
09-27-2007, 11:04 AM
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Re: Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet???
I doubt that a calling station would donk into 2 players twice when his first attempt was being raised in a PF capped pot. We can't exclude the possibility that we are already behind here. AQ/KQ is the only 2 made hand we can beat on this board so I think there is less to protect(According to OP, AA is unlikely) against reasonable players regarding to the PF+Flop action. I prefer a calldown and raise a non club/non ace/non Q river, or bet when check to
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#15
09-27-2007, 12:35 PM
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Re: Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet???
if we want to raise a river card that doesn't complete a draw then it's better to raise now for protection - utg might fold. if we are so much behind on average that raising now is not worth it, then raising the river is not worth it for the same reason. we should either raise now and find a fold if the passive player 3-bets or call down without raising.
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#16
09-27-2007, 02:09 PM
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Re: Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet???
[ QUOTE ]
if we want to raise a river card that doesn't complete a draw then it's better to raise now for protection - utg might fold. if we are so much behind on average that raising now is not worth it, then raising the river is not worth it for the same reason. we should either raise now and find a fold if the passive player 3-bets or call down without raising. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with that line. I don't think there is a standard line for that situation but i was so confident that i was ahead of UTG that i want him out now of the pot. Also, the play of the SB doesn't make sens. Why call only on the flop to bet when he has the best position for a check-raise. So i think he was protecting his hand, which if true, isn't ahead of me. So i raised but i agree that this is a tricky spot. UTG fold and SB just called and call the river with AQs.
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#17
09-27-2007, 07:29 PM
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Re: Raise the turn and fold to a 3bet???
[ QUOTE ]
if we want to raise a river card that doesn't complete a draw then it's better to raise now for protection - utg might fold. if we are so much behind on average that raising now is not worth it, then raising the river is not worth it for the same reason. we should either raise now and find a fold if the passive player 3-bets or call down without raising. [/ QUOTE ] i change my vote to the call-down line. utg has AQ (or maybe KQ) and sb has AQ or AA, so utg is drawing to the same hand as sb and we don't want him out.
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