The final truth about down swings. - Page 10

morphball · #91 11-20-2006, 12:10 PM

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I firmly believe that downswings happen because of the player, not the cards... Learn to fold in tight marginal situations.. Alot of players i notice when complaining about badbeats and downswings and whatnot, they will play badly until they start getting lucky again, and then their game will pick up from there.. because they are happy again.

If you face a couple beats in a night stop, go out to the bar, get laid, and go back to playing poker.. Its the player that creates bad runs, not the cards... believe me.

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I think people are being a little harsh with the n00b, what he says here is right for 95% of 2+2's downswings. Only a small fraction of us are actually good enough that our game will not be damaged by a run of bad cards. In other words, 95% of us tilt, and when that happens, 95% should take a break from cards, search our souls, and figure out why we tilted.

After acheiving zen, we can be among the 5% of winning players who do not tilt, and only then we can truly blame 100% of our losses on bad cards. Btw, when this happens, you will be on the road for riches...I am willing to bet that tilt costs the average winning player in NL 1-3 ptbb/100, and below average/losing and worse ones 5-25 ptbb/100. I dunno about limit, which IMO is the lowest form of poker...yucky, I cringe just thinking about it

<u>Edit</u>-I didn't realize this was an older post either...

Tommy Angelo · #92 11-20-2006, 12:38 PM

"After acheiving zen, we can be among the 5% of winning players who do not tilt, and only then we can truly blame 100% of our losses on bad cards."

There's a glitch in your reasoning. If one is so tiltless that he can "truly blame 100% of his losses on bad cards," then he will also be so tiltless that he doesn't bother to blame anything on anything. Tilt and blame are well connected.

holyfield5 · #93 11-20-2006, 01:42 PM

we dont blame it on the cards, but we know it was all their fault ^_^

still dont see the point of breaks, its not like by taking a break you skip the bad luck, if you need to gather yourself mentally then fine, but a few weeks is a bit much. i dont see why most players dont just realize that the stretches will be there, and the longer you play the sooner til green pastures again.

zen FTW

bernie · #94 11-20-2006, 05:05 PM

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if you need to gather yourself mentally then fine, but a few weeks is a bit much. i dont see why most players dont just realize that the stretches will be there, and the longer you play the sooner til green pastures again.

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A few weeks is a bit much, imo. But everyone's different.

Most players won't understand how a bad run of cards of a big downswing works itself out until they actually go through it. It's one thing to read about it and all, but a whole 'nother to actually experience it. Especially an extended one that might last a few months of breaking even or being down.(more likely during live play) Even though you're playing fine, it will cast doubts on your game and play with you psychologically.

This is one reason why poker is a bit tougher than it looks, longterm.

People are human.

b

2461Badugi · #95 11-21-2006, 09:47 AM

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"After acheiving zen, we can be among the 5% of winning players who do not tilt, and only then we can truly blame 100% of our losses on bad cards."

There's a glitch in your reasoning. If one is so tiltless that he can "truly blame 100% of his losses on bad cards," then he will also be so tiltless that he doesn't bother to blame anything on anything. Tilt and blame are well connected.

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Hm. This is not my method at all, but then again I don't believe tilt-free meens playing perfect poker. I think it's important to recognize that we can still play badly even when we don't tilt, and be able to distinguish losing because of making mistakes and losing because of bad cards.

If I never made mistakes at the table I'd probably have to quit, because poker without the quest to improve would be irredeemably boring.

2461Badugi · #96 11-21-2006, 09:59 AM

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still dont see the point of breaks, its not like by taking a break you skip the bad luck

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I recommend breaks largely because it's extremely rare to run into a poker player, especially a pro, who takes enough breaks. Ideally they'd be taking them more regularly good times and bad, but if a bad run provides the impetus for a player who really needs it to take a vacation, it may be a blessing in disguise.

For a player who understands this aspect of the lifestyle, and has a rational strategy, I agree with you. I don't think most people even think about it. One of the things about so many pro poker players being so young is that many of them are learning the lessons of being self-employed for the first time, and one of the hardest of those lessons is not only managing your work time but managing your non-work time.

Before coming to poker I worked with fiction writers, and I still do to a degree. There's very much the same competitive machismo in that community (despite it being a female-dominated industry) that leads people to drive themselves to work extensively seven days a week, 52 weeks a year. That's just not healthy for anyone. But it's very difficult to get them to understand that. And writers don't have a built-in excuse like downswings can be in poker. Burnout is incredibly common.

bilyin · #97 11-21-2006, 02:14 PM

I agree with you except I do think taking a break to clear the mind is a good thing.

xGREGORx · #98 11-21-2006, 02:25 PM

This might be the single best thread I've read on 2+2. Nice job deacsoft. In the middle of a tilty downswing right now and came to the psychology forum for the first time and here's this gem near the top of the list... perhaps a positive omen that I will turn the corner and play like I should.