A tough spot for me, 100-200 LO8

[TxRedMan]

We're 6-7 handed. Villain is unknown, just sat down.

A semi-tilting too aggro player opens in EP, guy on my right calls, I call with

A-3-5-J double suited.

Button calls, big blind had the kill and calls.

Flop comes

7-6-9 with two diamonds. I dont have diamonds, but I do have a back door nut flush draw, the second nut low draw, and a gutshot.

checks to original raiser who bets, guy on my right folds, what's your action with two people still to act behind you? (button and the BB)

note: people love to check-raise at this level more so than at lower levels.

I thought this hand was interesting because it's a spot where your flop decision is the hardest decision of the hand, as opposed to the turn.


-Tex

[Thousand_air]

I would fold I don't want to draw agaisnt the flush. And five way action with the second nut low is a close your eyes and pray. With out the flush draw I would peal. This shouldn't be a good flop for the orginal raiser I think in a lot of spots he would be betting A2 or his flush draw whitch again kills your draw.

[Buzz]

Tex - What to do with one way 2nd nut low draw hands is one of the toughest decisions you have to make in this game.

When you play A3YZ hands to begin with, you have to expect to usually be looking at a 2nd nut draw after the flop. Unless you catch a deuce (plus one or two non-counterfeiting low cards) on the flop, which only happens with A35J about one time out of six, and unless you catch something for high, you will be looking at a 2nd nut low draw or nothing for low.

(1) Flopping the 2nd nut low and
(2) flopping the 2nd nut low draw are two entirely different matters.

Flopping the 2nd nut low is tough enough. you can still get counterfeited on the turn or river and in a seven handed game you have to split with another 2nd nut low (or two others) approximately one time out of three (close to about 35%).

You're going to end up winning low approximately one time out of three. (Actually a bit better than that). Roughly half of the time one of these opponents will have an ace-deuce-YZ, and there won't be any low 28% of the time.

Although you started with five opponents seeing the flop for two small bets each, your opponents will probably tighten up after this flop. A2YZ hands and maybe A3YZ hands might continue drawing for low but anyone else who continues will have some sort of bead on high.

On the surface it looks as though you have good position, but with BB checking (possibly lying in the weeds looking for a check-raise), UTG betting, and Button yet to act, you're caught in the middle this round, and maybe on future rounds. Thus your position doesn't really look very good after all.

With nothing else going for the hand, and not knowing exactly where you stand here, I think you give it up.

Fold.

Buzz

[wiseheart]

Fold, but if it was 5 handed I would call.

[Omaha8sPoker]

See this is why I always wait to speak after buzz...He usually comes in with the math that I would probably end up [censored] up...I think here you have to give it up because your backdoor draws in combination with your position just don't give you enough to continue with...If you fill your gutshot you are still looking at having the ass end of the straight (don't know how bad the game was playing if people would be in there with cards that would make the nut straight)...

I was thinking possibly raising here, but does that really do anything except bloat the pot when you are out-of-position?? I doubt it gets any A2 to fold so you really aren't cleaning up any of your outs for the low...

You might be able to get away with a peel on the button or with fewer opponents, but here I think it's just -EV to continue...

[DeNutza]

In full games I make much more with hands like A4XY
and A5XY then A3XY....Probably because its alot easier
to lay them down, so I would suspect Buzz and O8Poker
are right.