Why isn't anyone called on these simple points?

[Fly]

So everytime I see a politician or commentator talk about solutions to the situation in Iraq they invariably claim atleast one of the two following things (and many others, but thats another post).

1) The solution is to train Iraqi troops and have them stand up for themselves.

lol, Assume for the sake of argument that they are all reasonably trained, loyal and dedicated. Even so, they still won't be anywhere near the caliber of the U.S army so how can they be expected to do something the U.S army can't do?

2) The solution to Iraq is related to the settlement of the Israeli/Palestinian issue.

First of all, the people who claim this also assert that Iraq is in the midst of a civil war (which I agree with) or at the very least it is involved in "sectarian strife". That is, these people are fighting over who will control the government, oil wealth,....whatever after we inevitably leave. So are we to believe that the sunni insurgents will accept living in a country dominated by the people they formely oppressed (who are naturally hellbent on retribution) in exchange for a Palestinian state? LOL (or Shia's sharing power equitably when they will otherwise get everything)

The point these people make is that we can trade concessions on the Israel/Palestine issue in exchange for them (assume honestly) blocking the passage of foreign supplies and fighters. Well ok, that will help some but remember Iraq is in a civil war and while this will certainly weaken the sunnies to some extent but they will not concede anything as for the sunnies concession = death and/or subjugation. They will fight on no matter what, even if it is clear that they will lose. As they say, wars do not end when they are won, they end only when enough people have been killed.

Just to add, I do believe that a settlement in the near future is in both America/Israel's interests but for reasons which have nothing to do with Iraq.

[peritonlogon]

Isn't the point of a political talk show to bull [censored]? It's just an exercise.

"So mister Senator how can you answer this question you really don't give a [censored] about, act like you actually know what it is you're talking about and, what's more, act as though you have thought about the issues so as to come up with an informed opinion, while offending absolouly no one, well Senator?"

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
they still won't be anywhere near the caliber of the U.S army so how can they be expected to do something the U.S army can't do?

[/ QUOTE ]

They won't be. After we leave, all the angry Muslim bees we're drawing to Iraq with our military honey will have no reason to go.

[morphball]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
they still won't be anywhere near the caliber of the U.S army so how can they be expected to do something the U.S army can't do?

[/ QUOTE ]

They won't be. After we leave, all the angry Muslim bees we're drawing to Iraq with our military honey will have no reason to go.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL - You obviously do not realize that the Shia/Sunni conflict precedes US involvement in the Middle East by centuries, that Saddam Hussien handled the conflict by killing 100,000's of Shiites, and now the other Sunni's (such as ones in Jordan and Saudi Arabia) are jumping in line to help the Sunni's in Iraq.

I don't know everything about the situation on the ground over there, but I will bet my bankroll on the fact that the worst acts of terrorism over there are Sunni's killing Shiites and vice-versa. US troops are getting killed too, but the real carnage is muslim on muslim.

Iraq is a proxy war against Iran, let's see where it will go.

[Grey]

Well, Saudi Arabia just announced they'd back the Sunnis in a war and their US ambassador abruptly quit.

It looks like the place this retarded ass mission will end up is a regional war. Iran vs. Saudi Arabia, Jordan, etc.

I don't even want to go into the implications of this. I'll just say one word: Russia. Take it from there.

[Poofler]

This mission could turn out to be brilliant. Get muslims to murder each other so that they are too busy to murder us. George Bush = diabolical genius, minus the retarded comments to the press.

[Grey]

A history of purposely destabilizing their countries and oppressing their people is why they hate us, and why 9/11 wasn't stopped. Look back to 1953 when we overthrew Iran's democracy and installed a brutal dictator who would give us oil as an example.

Yeah, I guess if furthering our short-term oil interests is your only goal then it's brilliant. If protecting the American people is though then it's stupid. Even we can't take on the whole world, and we certainly can't stop terrorist plots without the cooperation of many other countries. I swear old men who can't adapt from the old outdated isolationist mind-frame are going to be the death of us.

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
they still won't be anywhere near the caliber of the U.S army so how can they be expected to do something the U.S army can't do?

[/ QUOTE ]

They won't be. After we leave, all the angry Muslim bees we're drawing to Iraq with our military honey will have no reason to go.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL - You obviously do not realize that the Shia/Sunni conflict precedes US involvement in the Middle East by centuries, that Saddam Hussien handled the conflict by killing 100,000's of Shiites, and now the other Sunni's (such as ones in Jordan and Saudi Arabia) are jumping in line to help the Sunni's in Iraq.

I don't know everything about the situation on the ground over there, but I will bet my bankroll on the fact that the worst acts of terrorism over there are Sunni's killing Shiites and vice-versa. US troops are getting killed too, but the real carnage is muslim on muslim.

Iraq is a proxy war against Iran, let's see where it will go.

[/ QUOTE ]

I never claimed they would have nothing to worry about, just that they wouldn't have to deal with the same thing the U.S. is. Or if I were to respond to you like you responded to me...

LOL, you obviously need to learn some reading comprehension skills.

[AlexM]

[ QUOTE ]
A history of purposely destabilizing their countries and oppressing their people is why they hate us, and why 9/11 wasn't stopped. Look back to 1953 when we overthrew Iran's democracy and installed a brutal dictator who would give us oil as an example.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I swear old men who can't adapt from the old outdated isolationist mind-frame are going to be the death of us.

[/ QUOTE ]

*scratches head* So... you approve of what happened in that first quote then? Your tone suggested otherwise, but I guess not.

[Mickey Brausch]

[ QUOTE ]
Saudi Arabia just announced they'd back the Sunnis in a war and their US ambassador abruptly quit.
<font color="white"> . </font>
It looks like the place this retarded-ass mission will end up is a regional war. Iran vs. Saudi Arabia, Jordan, etc.
<font color="white">. </font>
I don't even want to go into the implications of this. I'll just say one word: <font color="blue"> Russia</font>. Take it from there.

[/ QUOTE ]Oh baby.

We do realize that Russia is no longer non grata in this muslim corner of the world, don't we? I mean, the godless, evil communists are gone, and a bunch of religious, capitalist, business-minded nice folks are in charge now, aren't they?

It just might turn out that Washington's long, ultra-bloody and quite expensive involvement in the Great Game will end up providing the epigones of Catherine The Great with, at long last, ports in warm waters !..

Mickey Brausch