any 2 sooted in the BB

[KitCloudkicker]

heres a pretty simple question for you guys.

it appears that defending your BB with any 2 sooted in a multiway pot is quite standard when you're closing the action.

what about when you have poor position relative to the raiser? lets say that after a few limpers, the CO or button raises. you have a hand like T3s in the BB. worth a call? maybe you even have a hand with no high card strength, like 82s...muck?

[MandM_WSU]

depends on the raiser and how many are in the pot. If it is only a few, I'd muck 82s, 72s or 73s. I might keep something like 10xs.

[KitCloudkicker]

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depends on the raiser and how many are in the pot.

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please elaborate.

[BigBadBabar]

if there's a raise, one coldcaller, and i have suited uncoordinated crap like 82s, easy fold.

if there's a raise, five coldcallers, and i have suited anything, i call, and i call lots of unsuited anythings also.

if there's a raise, one coldcaller, and i have 86s or k7s or something high cardy or connecty, i'll call.

if there's a raise, five coldcallers, and i have 86s or k3s or 43s, easy call obviously.

[BigBadBabar]

certainly it also depends somewhat on your comfort level with such hands, your skill vs the skill of the other players in the pot, your postflop play in marginal situations, your table image, and all that other stuff we sometimes categorize in myriad ways.

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
if there's a raise, one coldcaller, and i have suited uncoordinated crap like 82s, easy fold.

if there's a raise, five coldcallers, and i have suited anything, i call, and i call lots of unsuited anythings also.

if there's a raise, one coldcaller, and i have 86s or k7s or something high cardy or connecty, i'll call.

if there's a raise, five coldcallers, and i have 86s or k3s or 43s, easy call obviously.

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in other words your position relative to the PFR is irrelevant correct?

[BigBadBabar]

no, i was just giving examples based on an ep raiser and the action's on us after x callers, since we're in the big blind, after all. obviously if there are some limpers, then a raise, and it's on us, we can be mostly sure that all the previous limpers are going to call, so it's more assured to be multiway.

position does matter somewhat, but not tremendously imo, because with these kind of speculative sooted hands, we're either gonna hit the flop big enough to continue (straight draw, pair+draw, two pair, trips, or fourflush), or we're not. if we do, we stay in the hand, if not, we don't. being in the bb we're going to be checking and seeing anyway so our relative position is pretty good.

if we hit big vs an ep raiser we can c/r the whole field, and if we hit big against an lp raiser we can c/r him if we want to narrow the field, or just c/c a draw to keep people in. and if we whiff, we're folding, so position doesn't matter a lot [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[jesse8888]

Kit, the Limp/3-bet move is so rare in my game that I usually don't worry about how far I am from closing the pf action. The exception is if I'm sitting with one or two specific players that I know like to employ it (with AA, AK, KK, and even sooted connectors for kicks), then I'll be more inclined to toss the really marginal stuff.

That said, I usually require some level of connectivity or high card strength. I don't play T3s, for example.

[chesspain]

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what about when you have poor position relative to the raiser? lets say that after a few limpers, the CO or button raises. you have a hand like T3s in the BB. worth a call?

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Having the CO or button as the raiser isn't necessarily "poor relative position," since:

1) If you check the flop you get to see how everyone acts before the action gets to the raiser;

2) If you flop a hand like two-pair or a flush draw, you have the option of betting out and trapping everyone for a call--or getting them to fold if they risk being squeezed.

On the other hand, if would definately be poor relative position if the SB was the raiser, which might make me think twice about calling with suited trash.

[MandM_WSU]

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depends on the raiser and how many are in the pot.

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please elaborate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant that if the raiser was a typical low-limit live LAG, and there were several (4+) cold callers behind him and my call would close the betting, I'd probably call with suited crap. Then c/r the flop if i catch a draw. The latter is prolly spewing chips though.