poker vs chess wich is easier??

[BigF]

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Chess is theoretically solvable, but as you say probably not possible now. I wonder if it will be solved in my lifetime. I'd be interested to read the results of that :-) Do you have an opinion on what the result would be?


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It saddens me knowing that one day chess will be solved by computers. Chess used to be an art. It still is to some degree. However, when it's solved it'll be a piece of garbage like checkers.

[saeute]

The big difference between those games is the reputation. Chess is a game for masterminds only and poker is for everyone (In my opinion it should be the exactly the opposite). Thats why the average play is a lot higher in chess.

Practically poker is easier, but theoreticaly they are both equally difficult.

[Albert Silver]

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To become good at poker, I had read about 10 books several times over, how many books do you need to read to become good at chess?

I am wondering how the foundation of each game compares.

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Chess is a very different animal. Presuming you aren't some kind of freak talent, you'd need to learn a set of skills to reach master level. These skills combine creativity with pure logic. You also need to learn quite a bit of information by heart.

In terms of pure memorization, you would need to study and learn a few openings (first moves of the game) to reach positions you enjoy and understand. You will also need to learn and recognize some key positions and maneuvers for the endgame, so that not only can you convert a basic won position, but also know which positions to steer for when preparing the forthcoming endgame. In other words, know which pieces to exchange and which not to, etc.

The logic will come very much from the much needed skill of calculation, and that is one that takes considerable practice and training to develop. For example, you have determined there are 3 candidates, moves A, B, and C. Each one leads to different consequences. If you play A, your opponent must play A1, and you will follow with A2. However, now your opponent has two acceptable moves (at first sight), and again you must look at both lines. Hopefuly, only deep enough to get a feeling as to which is best, and evaluate move A overall. Then you'll need to look at moves B and C, and compare them. The practice will help you visualize better (you don't get to move the pieces while you try to imagine that position 6 moves from now), be more precise (less blindspots), and not get lost (do enough calculations and this is easy to happen). There is a time limit too, so it must be balanced accordingly.

The other element of logic would be the strategic analysis, and determining the best plan of action, which you will then support via calculation to find the best way to execute it. And let's not forget about anticipating and preventing your opponent's plans.

The creativity comes from tactics, and even strategy at the higher levels, in training to see unexpected shots. Moves that sacrifice material or position quality in the short term, but that lead to material or positional gains further down. These can sometimes be very hard to see as they derive from very illogical looking moves (pff... that drops a rook, can't be good), so a lot of exercise solving, split according to themes and difficulty, is the answer.

The above is still quite a bit of a simplification, but it does summarize some of what climbing the chess mastery ladder requires.

[JackStrap]

exellent post albert, imho chess quality for acheiving world class play are much more intellectual demanding than what is this for world class poker. Poker require much less memorisation and logic (logic in the sence of calculation). Poker, in contrast, require much more creativity than chess. This creativity came from the imperfect information nature of poker and it's something you can't just learn in book, that knowledge come from past-experience and psychological knowledge of yours opponents.

Wich is easier to learn? i don't know, but poker is much less intectual demanding than chess because creativity is not something we can learn just in book and like it's was said before 95% of yours actions are trivial in poker.

[Komodo]

Half of my chess friends has switched to poker recently. A few of them pros and at least one of them is playing in as big games as 50/100NL on occasion.
Ive never heard of any poker player who has switched to chess and become a GM or IM
So which game you is easier you think?

Im not saying poker is an easy game, just that poker is easier than chess.

[dirty banana2007]

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Half of my chess friends has switched to poker recently. A few of them pros and at least one of them is playing in as big games as 50/100NL on occasion.
Ive never heard of any poker player who has switched to chess and become a GM or IM
So which game you is easier you think?

Im not saying poker is an easy game, just that poker is easier than chess.

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your example doesnt show which is easier, only which is financially more rewarding!

why would someone switch from poker to chess? it would require a huge time commitment, and the financial rewards are not as great as those offered by good poker skills.

[Gelford]

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Half of my chess friends has switched to poker recently. A few of them pros and at least one of them is playing in as big games as 50/100NL on occasion.
Ive never heard of any poker player who has switched to chess and become a GM or IM
So which game you is easier you think?

Im not saying poker is an easy game, just that poker is easier than chess.

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your example doesnt show which is easier, only which is financially more rewarding!

why would someone switch from poker to chess? it would require a huge time commitment, and the financial rewards are not as great as those offered by good poker skills.

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Well Aba went from 50NL to being one of the best players in the world in a year


That is impossible in chess.

[Albert Silver]

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Half of my chess friends has switched to poker recently. A few of them pros and at least one of them is playing in as big games as 50/100NL on occasion.
Ive never heard of any poker player who has switched to chess and become a GM or IM
So which game you is easier you think?

Im not saying poker is an easy game, just that poker is easier than chess.

[/ QUOTE ]

your example doesnt show which is easier, only which is financially more rewarding!

why would someone switch from poker to chess? it would require a huge time commitment, and the financial rewards are not as great as those offered by good poker skills.

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Well Aba went from 50NL to being one of the best players in the world in a year


That is impossible in chess.

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Yes, I have heard a few grandmasters estimate that to reach the grandmaster title (a lifetime title bestowed by FIDE, the world chess federation, after a number of requirements have been fulfilled - results and rating) takes about 15-20 years on average. For those who ever make it that is. From what I know and have seen (I'm not that high up the ladder) that sounds about right.

[Bronstein]

Chess: It takes years to become good. It's a whole process of maturation.
Poker: In a few months any student can get good. Just learn the math and then some.
I define good as never making a worse decision than a weak player. The weak player can be someone who studied the basics or someone with years of experience who never studied anything.

Assuming he has the skills I can make someone a good chess player after years of individual training, a good poker player within months by giving him the good books.

[jeffnc]

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Well Aba went from 50NL to being one of the best players in the world in a year

That is impossible in chess.

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Well, it's also impossible to *know* he's one of the best players in the world, whereas in chess, it can be determined with much greater accuracy.