religion and faith (also long)

[Davidius]

This is partly in response to the post made earlier about the crisis of faith that a person was having and partly to state what I believe. I have spent a great deal of time pondering such faith-challenging questions. I also feel very good about the answers I have to most of these difficult questions. However, what I have come to understand after reading the Gospels over and over again is that the true follower of Christ is defined not as a person who has all of their theological ducks in a row, so to speak, but rather a person who is living an authentic, compassionate, and responsible life. Jesus himself said that his true followers were the ones who do the will of the Father. One need look no further than the parable of the sheep and goats found in Matthew 25:31-46.

As for religion itself, I believe that it certainly does have meaning and value. It provides answers to "why" questions that science will never be able to answer. Why is there a universe? How did something so complex as the human body/mind come to be? How are we to understand miracles? What should I think about other people's spiritual experiences and my own? Why do we feel bad when we make a selfish decision, but feel good when we act kindly? These are the kinds of perennial questions that science does not have an answer to, and probably will never have an answer to. Not only that, but religion gives people a sense of meaning and context to people's lives. It fills the void that empty materialism cannot fill. It's comforting to believe in a just God that will figure everything out in the end. It's comforting to know that you are unconditionally loved by someone. It brings peace to the mind to be able to pray for strength when troubling times come upon you. It also offers hope that there is life after death, and that we can have eternal happiness if we live our lives in accordance to the teachings of Christ. In any case, faith and beliefs are important... but not as important as who you are as a person. As a great professor of mine puts it: "the two most important questions a Christian should ask are: what is God up to in this world, and what ought I to do." That's all.

[pilliwinks]

Amen brother.

Now who will be first with the scorn and derision?

[Prodigy54321]

[ QUOTE ]
It provides answers to "why" questions that science will never be able to answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Why is there a universe?

[/ QUOTE ]

what exactly is your answer to this?

[ QUOTE ]
How did something so complex as the human body/mind come to be?

[/ QUOTE ]

why can't science answer this?

..I woul like to say that just because something gives you "answers" to difficult questions..doesn't mean that it's worth while if the answers are false..although I suppose that acquiring true information is secondary to making yourself satisfied..

[madnak]

I think your view is fine. I also think it's inconsistent with Christianity.

See, here's the thing about Christianity. It doesn't matter what kind of life you've lived, if you don't accept Jesus as your savior you will go to hell where you'll be subjected to eternal torture.

That's the platform of Christianity, and attempts to reinvent it won't change that. You can say that hell is metaphorical and that "accepting Christ" happens on an emotional rather than an intellectual level, but you're distancing yourself dramatically from the bulk of Christians. Regardless, it's not a "be nice" religion. It's a religion that admits to following a wrathful, vengeful and jealous God. This isn't touchy-feely, it's not "live a compassionate life and it's all good." It's original sin. It's raze the town, kill the men, take the women as slaves. It's obey or be punished.

That's Christianity, and no amount of apologetics is going to make it go away.

[Davidius]

I appreciate your comments and thank you for replying. My point was merely that religion, as a social construct, plays a role in many people's lives that science will never be able to. Actually, it plays a far more important one, in my own opinion. But that's just me. I love science, but it doesn't do much for me, in terms of hope and meaning-making. As for the search for truth, I find it hard for a person to ever prove with substancial evidence the answers to most of the questions I asked. Having read the Bible, it seems obvious that Jesus was more concerned with the way people behaved towards others than laying down a perfect theological construct. Hope this helps address your points...

[Prodigy54321]

[ QUOTE ]
As for the search for truth, I find it hard for a person to ever prove with substancial evidence the answers to most of the questions I asked.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
How did something so complex as the human body/mind come to be?

[/ QUOTE ]

science has a pretty good explaination for this one..

and if you are going to say that it is not sufficient...

I doubt that christianity has more evidence that it's explaination is correct.

[ QUOTE ]
I love science, but it doesn't do much for me, in terms of hope and meaning-making.

[/ QUOTE ]

I will say one again that although it may give you "hope" and "meaning"...that does not offer this religion any credibility...

I simply wish that people could gain more satisfaction from believing what is true..rather than what they wish were true..

anyone who is not capable doing that is better off being religious I suppose

[Davidius]

As a student getting a doctorate in clinical psychology, I know that the study of the human mind has posed more questions than answers. But all of that aside, I would like to know what your idea of the "good life" is, since to me this is the most important issue for a human being. Just curious.

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
I think your view is fine. I also think it's inconsistent with Christianity.

See, here's the thing about Christianity. It doesn't matter what kind of life you've lived, if you don't accept Jesus as your savior you will go to hell where you'll be subjected to eternal torture.

That's the platform of Christianity, and attempts to reinvent it won't change that. You can say that hell is metaphorical and that "accepting Christ" happens on an emotional rather than an intellectual level, but you're distancing yourself dramatically from the bulk of Christians. Regardless, it's not a "be nice" religion. It's a religion that admits to following a wrathful, vengeful and jealous God. This isn't touchy-feely, it's not "live a compassionate life and it's all good." It's original sin. It's raze the town, kill the men, take the women as slaves. It's obey or be punished.

That's Christianity, and no amount of apologetics is going to make it go away.

[/ QUOTE ]

What a beautiful religion. It really gets me to want to jump on the band wagon! Say no more, you may spoil it! LOL

[pilliwinks]

[ QUOTE ]
I think your view is fine. I also think it's inconsistent with Christianity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps inconsistent with medieval Christianity. Not remotely incompatible with the kind that gets shared around at our church.

I accept that having a jealous and vengeful God is not peaches and cream new agey. But you're leaving out the other side: the God who is love. Not occasionally has a burst of love in between angry spells. Is love.

So if he really is love, and he tells you that some actions are going to be very bad for you, you do well to avoid them. That's all. It doesn't make him mean or domineering, it just means he has a better idea than you do about what is good for you. If you are a parent you probably understand how this works, if not, I can see how it might appear contradictory.

And if he recommends you live the kind of life Davidious described, then you do well to have a go.

BTW it's not quite right that "It doesn't matter what kind of life you've lived". Jesus tells a very pointed story about two sons asked to do some work for dad. One says sure, then goofs off, and the other says get lost, but ends up going and doing it anyway. Moral: you show what you really believe by what you do.

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
But you're leaving out the other side

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah! there are two sides to god, the good and the bad?! That must make the bad alright!