AQ river and maybe preflop/flop/turn

milesdyson · #1 04-12-2007, 09:43 PM

Open raiser is a good TAG at Stars I think. Maybe I'm wrong because when I played this hand I thought I knew who he was, but I just checked my PT and I didn't have many hands on him. Whatever, his screen name was TedBroke.

Button is 29/20 4C35 who has played spewy before. However, I feel like he is playing pretty honest and possibly a bit weak right now. We played a hand earlier where he 3-bet my MP raise from the SB with 66. Flop 992 he bets, I call. Turn 8 he bets, I call. River 3 he checks. He would usually make this bet. He has the best hand ~100% of the time. Anyway I value bet my 44 and he called and I said "wow." He told me he was getting rocked tonight, so that's why I think he isn't messing around.

I do still think he 3-bets stuff like QJs, KJo, and 44/55 vs. the other TAG's CO open raise.

Anyway, should I fold preflop? Fold the flop not closing the action? Fold the turn? Call the river?

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (5 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, Button 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls, MP calls.

Flop: (9.40 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, Button bets, Hero calls, MP calls.

Turn: (6.20 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Button raises, Hero calls, MP calls.

River: (12.20 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Button calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 15.20 BB

HOWMANY · #2 04-12-2007, 09:54 PM

If you keep folding these rivers you are going to have an infinite bet downswing. I would cap preflop, maybe opener will fold. I want to donk the river but I would probably just c/c because I play bad online.

jba · #3 04-12-2007, 09:57 PM

i dont see how you could ever be good on that river. if button paused my money is on him.

jba · #4 04-12-2007, 09:59 PM

ps: i think donking is definitely better than c/c because they will IMMEDIATELY put you on the nuts.

milesdyson · #5 04-12-2007, 10:04 PM

HOWMANY,

How do I beat MP here? I think I only ever win outright if he made a ridiculous stab with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and I win half the pot if he made the same dumb stab with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. If he donks hands like this, why not donk with 16 combos of KQ as well? Otherwise, if he doesn't make these kinds of donks with draws, how can he not have me beaten? Am I supposed to put him on a bluff in that spot? Bet/call the turn and then donkbluff the river 3-way on a card that likely hits the third player?

Anyway, I do think I should have bet the river. MP can have QJ, Button can have KJ, QQ, KK, and I don't have to worry about folding the best hand to a raise (if either of them made me fold the best hand by raising a river donk after that turn action, I would gouge out my eyes so online poker wouldn't even matter anymore). So yeah, bet the river, but I checked and MP bet after donk/calling the turn. So I made the wrong first choice, but the question is about the second decision.

Infinte bet downswing here I come!

HOWMANY · #6 04-12-2007, 10:40 PM

I don't even bother trying to think about what he has once the pot is 13 bets and I have top pair good kicker on a board with no flush possible and only a 3 straight and to be honest I didn't even really look at the action when I replied, I just saw you had a good looking hand and it was 1 bet closing the action. His hand looks a lot like AT/AJ/KQ now that I go back to looking at it. That said I call anyway. You have top pair good kicker. I'm probably a bit of a showdown monkey but I don't really think this is showdown monkeyish. Like I said, I think the best play is to donk, but I play bad so I c/c.

xerxesthegod · #7 04-12-2007, 11:09 PM

This river is a call. K,K - Q,Q and even A,J are in his range. I'd even say B/F this river.

Ineedaride2 · #8 04-12-2007, 11:11 PM

There are two people back to Miles...

milesdyson · #9 04-12-2007, 11:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This river is a call. K,K - Q,Q and even A,J are in his range. I'd even say B/F this river.

[/ QUOTE ]
KK and QQ call preflop? They check call the flop? They donk a random turn? They stop and go a bad river? Wow.

Of course AJ is in his range. Notice I lose to AJ.

duckman · #10 04-13-2007, 01:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Anyway, I do think I should have bet the river. MP can have QJ, Button can have KJ, QQ, KK, and I don't have to worry about folding the best hand to a raise (if either of them made me fold the best hand by raising a river donk after that turn action, I would gouge out my eyes so online poker wouldn't even matter anymore). So yeah, bet the river, but I checked and MP bet after donk/calling the turn. So I made the wrong first choice, but the question is about the second decision.

[/ QUOTE ] Well I think you just layed out the case for why you should call.
Its times like these that I look at tthe pot and say 15 BBs, and a lot of BS happens short handed so I call. No superfolds pls.