2/4 - I see monsters

[Aces McGee]

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Or he could be so passive that he would put you on KK when you went to five-bet the flop and only raise the river here with quads.

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mcgee,

if an old passive nit 5 bets me on this flop after raising UTG, i put him on KK 99%. not say i would fold a set of nines or eights, but i wouldnt be any more bets in UI.

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Yeah, I don't know why I included "so" in there. It's not all that passive to call down at that point -- five bets is a lot, even against a wild chip-spewer like gobbledygeek [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

-McGee

[KitCloudkicker]

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if an old passive nit 5 bets me on this flop after raising UTG, i put him on KK 99%. not say i would fold a set of nines or eights, but i wouldnt be any more bets in UI.

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But you're still 3betting my hand, right?

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yes, your opponent isnt me.

he probably is thinking, "hey, i have a boat now!" without considering what you might be holding. its the same type of thing when you see a player raise A3 on the river after hitting trip aces vs a tight PFR who's bet all 3 streets.

[chillrob]

I think it is unlikely villain has 88 - it looks like the 9 helped his hand. He very well could have K9 or 89 though, and I think after just one river raise from him, either of those are more likely than 99. If he is usually passive and 4 bets the river though, I would just call.

[Aces McGee]

FWIW, the way the opponent played this hand if he holds anything other than 99 is rather illogical. If he has a big hand (a hand that makes a boat on the river) and is worried about being beat once gobbledygeek leads the turn, the 9 on the river doesn't change enough for him to raise.

-McGee

[gobbledygeek]

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FWIW, the way the opponent played this hand if he holds anything other than 99 is rather illogical. If he has a big hand (a hand that makes a boat on the river) and is worried about being beat once gobbledygeek leads the turn, the 9 on the river doesn't change enough for him to raise.

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True. But I still have to 3bet this every time, right?

GshoppingforskirtsG

[RossSi]

FWIW I played a pretty similar hand to this yesterday on Full Tilt - exceptions: it was capped pre flop three ways and the board paired with 4s so I was pretty much able to rule out quads. I would have puked. The turn got capped and I led the river into calls. Final hands - me KK, villan 1 AA, villan 2 AKs - and 21 BB for me.

Sorry, back to your hand - must three bet but five betting is up for debate/probably not a great idea.

[One Outer]

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Ya, you guys nailed it, I only posted this for the benefit of other noobs. My horrendous mistake was overlooking that Villain could easily play K9 or 98 the same way on the flop, therefore it wasn't 50/50 on the river that he had quads.

Against typical live 2/4 player, how many bets would you usually do? Does anyone 5bet this cuz now I'm thinking that might be entering spewy territory?

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I just call a four bet. I'd have to have a read that he was a special kind of retarded to fivetown.

[jesse8888]

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I failed poker 101 here. My thinking at the time is with aggressive flop play this villain had a set of 9's or a set of 8's, therefore it was 50/50 his quads came in and thus no point in 3betting/calling. Point out the error in my thought process.


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The error in your thought process is assuming those are the ONLY two hands he could hold. There are definitely other hands that many players would play like this on the flop. You gotta stick in one more raise; if he 4 bets you, then I just call.

[Aces McGee]

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FWIW, the way the opponent played this hand if he holds anything other than 99 is rather illogical. If he has a big hand (a hand that makes a boat on the river) and is worried about being beat once gobbledygeek leads the turn, the 9 on the river doesn't change enough for him to raise.

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True. But I still have to 3bet this every time, right?

GshoppingforskirtsG

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I'm sure there will be calls for me to turn in my Carpal \'Tunnel status for saying this, but if I'm ever not three-betting the nut full house on the river, this is the spot. The board is such that he can pretty much only have a full house here, and if he has a hand that the 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] helped, his prior action suggests that he was afraid of three kings on the flop, a hand he's still losing to on the river -- unless he has quads.

That said, it's live 2/4, where players who bet or raise based only on the strength of their hands are somewhat common (these players exist, in smaller numbers, at higher limits, too) -- "A full house is worth eight bucks!" He could also be "slowplaying" his 88 or two pair (unlikely given all the action on the flop, but possible) or waiting to make sure the third spade didn't come or a straight wasn't possible before he put in heavy action on the big streets.

-McGee

[chesspain]

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You gotta stick in one more raise; if he 4 bets you, then I just call.

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