Fun w/ A8s

[The Dude]

Bellagio 30-60, 8 handed. UTG is loose and passive and bad. SB is very good preflop and postflop, and certainly capable of 3rd level thinking.

Preflop: The A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is exposed and replaced during the deal.
UTG limps, folded to The Dude who raises A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB 3-bets, BB folds, UTG calls, The Dude calls.

Flop: (10 SBs) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="blue">(3 Players)</font>
SB bets, UTG calls, The Dude raises. SB 3bets, UTG folds, The Dude 4bets. SB calls.

Turn: (9.5 BBs) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 Players)</font>
SB checks, The Dude bets, SB calls.

River: (11.5 BBs) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB checks.

Does The Dude have a value bet here?

[bboy_]

what does sb think of you?

i'm leading towards a check though

[ProfessorBen]

What is your position? This hand might play differently if you're MP1 as opposed to the Button.

Is the Ah situation exposed before or after your preflop action? Before or after his?

Assuming that it is your action after the Ah is exposed, I think this whole hand is excellent if you check the river. Villain can read your raise on the flop as a flush draw or something like KQ/QJs, and his 3-bet has the opportunity to knock out the limper. Once he does 3-bet I think his most likely holdings are AJ/AK/KK/KQ.

However, I cap because of the opportunity to take a free card and to get to showdown cheaply. I think b/f the turn and checking behind on the river is an excellent play. You still get to charge hands that have 5 outs on you when you're ahead, and you are deeply in trouble if you get c/r there.

I don't bet the river because I don't think we're ahead even 50% of the time, but someone should stove AK/AJ/KK/KQ/ATs(discounted b/c of preflop) to check.

[Scary_Tiger]

How could you possibly have a value bet? Why did you 4-bet the flop?

[The Dude]

Sorry guys, I'm on the button. Also, the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] was exposed during the deal. I saw it, he saw it, he knows I saw it, and I know he knows I saw it.

Maybe I'm leveling myself here, but I do think that effects the way he plays this against me postflop. It certainly changes the way I'm playing it against him.

[The Dude]

[ QUOTE ]
How could you possibly have a value bet? Why did you 4-bet the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
With the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] gone, there are only three aces in the deck. I have two of them?

[chillrob]

I think the fact that an ace is gone would make me be less likely to raise the flop, and I then might not in this situation. Not at all sure I am right in this thinking, but thought I would throw it out there.

[ProfessorBen]

[ QUOTE ]
How could you possibly have a value bet? Why did you 4-bet the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

4-betting the flop defines your villain's hand well(allowing us to b/f the big streets accurately), might be for value because villain is likely to 3-bet light here in case he reads your raise a as an attempt at a free card or a queen, and allows us to take a free card at some point.

[goofball]

who were you playing against?

[n.s.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How could you possibly have a value bet? Why did you 4-bet the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
With the A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] gone, there are only three aces in the deck. I have two of them?

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as that goes, it's essentially the same situation as flopping trips against a thinking opponent. Suppose the hand went like this:

Preflop:
UTG limps, folded to The Dude who raises A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB 3-bets, BB folds, UTG calls, The Dude calls.

Flop: (10 SBs) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="blue">(3 Players)</font>
SB bets, UTG calls, The Dude raises. SB 3bets, UTG folds, The Dude 4bets. SB calls.

Turn: (9.5 BBs) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 Players)</font>
SB checks, The Dude bets, SB calls.

River: (11.5 BBs) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB checks.

This should play out almost exactly the same - the only difference is that there's one less hand that SB could put you on (66) - other than that he's winning and losing to all the same hands.

Either way you look at the hand, for some reason I feel like SB's 3-bet is him telling you that you are behind. I like the cap if you take a free river, though.