STTF SNG->cash thread - Page 191

Josem · #**1901** 10-23-2007, 09:26 AM

Bhokie's QcJc hand:

fold flop so you don't get stranded with top pair out of position on the turn.

check river, and call a bet, but don't overcall if co bets and button calls.

Jbrochu · #**1902** 10-23-2007, 09:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, here's my thinking...

I'm not folding KK here! Not against his guy. But does that mean I should c/c or just shove?

Well, I really don't like c/c in this spot. It is unlikely based on the way he has played this hand, that a worse hand than mine will bet for value. It's unlikely he has TP because he called the flop and it'd be pretty rare for him to float that flop wiht Qx. So, the reason I don't want to c/c is because most worst hands check behind, and almost all better hands bet for value.

So, if I c/c I'm going to be pretty much always putting my money in bad. (this all assumes that he doesn't have draws that miss, but with this flop texture I'm not putting him on missed draws that often).

I guess this could be an agrument for c/f, but based on the fact this guy hasn't really folded to this point (that I've noticed), I'm willing to felt an overpair.

edit: so, in conclusion (sry, I'm kinda drunk) I shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm - I thought my thinking on playing the river was getting a lot better but this gives me quite a bit more food-for-thought.

As wiggs and micro suggest, it would be nice to know if he stays passive with a strong hand or turns agro.

I'm still trying to figure out what he could have called you with other than 8,T and A,9 that didn't at least make 2-pair by the river. And will he really call a river shove with those hands?

BHokie1 · #**1903** 10-23-2007, 09:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Just sat so I don't have stats on the guy.

But, he's played every hand and already stacked me once.

He called 25bbs preflop with ATs and stacked me when he turned a flush and I had JJ. So, his range preflop seems to be close to ATC, especially when he posted out of turn.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Hero ($403.60)
MP ($384)
CO ($1168)
Button ($414)
SB ($514)
BB ($404)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $6.
Hero raises to $20, 1 fold, CO (poster) calls $16, 3 folds.

Flop: ($48) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $40, CO calls $40.

Turn: ($128) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $100, CO calls $100.

River: ($328) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ????

[/ QUOTE ]

Devin I think check call the river, but I'm a complete n00b at this and I'm assume he bluffs hands you fold with a bet.

BHokie1 · #**1904** 10-23-2007, 09:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Bhokie's QcJc hand:

fold flop so you don't get stranded with top pair out of position on the turn.

check river, and call a bet, but don't overcall if co bets and button calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah I've been torn on folding to the min flop bets, in position I assume you might call?

Josem · #**1905** 10-23-2007, 09:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
yeah I've been torn on folding to the min flop bets, in position I assume you might call?

[/ QUOTE ]

not if you're going to be the fourth person in and not even close the flop betting round.

like, do some equity calcs.

you're putting 25c into a $2.25 pot.

you have 6 outs to a pair (!)

you need to discount these outs to compensate for when you're drawing dead - such as when villains have straights already, have sets, have two-pairs, have a bigger Q or bigger J, and when you get re-drawn on the river. then, you need to consider the god-awful reverse negative implied odds. oh, and you might get raised out of the pot on the flop, and then add on that you're out of position and have awful implied odds if you do hit.

after considering all this, i'd estimate you have the equivalent of 1-2 outs. if this is the case, you simply do not have pot odds to call even a minimum bet.

BHokie1 · #**1906** 10-23-2007, 09:56 AM

thx Josem I had been folding a lot to min bets on the flop with multiple callers and hated doing it, so I started calling a few.

Sounds like I might of talked myself into developing a leak.

Josem · #**1907** 10-23-2007, 10:06 AM

the hand you posted is exaggerated because it's limped in and you won't even end up with top kicker if you do hit.

if you raise AK from the button, and both blinds calls, and the flop comes 234, and the sb minbets, the bb calls, that would be a good time to raise. not when you dont have the initaitve, not when you have 0 FE, and not when you dont have any credible draws.

Scuba Chuck · #**1908** 10-23-2007, 10:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Poker]http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PokerStars.php#converter]Poker Stars[/url] Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($131.90)
BB ($277.05)
Hero ($115.75)
MP ($103.45)
CO ($100)
Button ($113.20)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, CO calls $4, 3 folds.

Flop: ($9.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $7, CO calls $7.

Turn: ($23.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $16, Hero calls $16.

River: ($55.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

villain is 13/11. early on in the session

[/ QUOTE ]

This kind of seems like Devin's KK hand in reverse (I'm referring to how villain played the hand postflop, not to the board).

cleinen · #**1909** 10-23-2007, 10:58 AM

where can i start betting again?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Poker"]http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PokerStars.php#converter]Poker Stars[/url] Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($51.10)
MP ($28.95)
CO ($102)
Button ($45.35)
SB ($60.95)
BB ($25)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $2, 2 folds, Button calls $2, SB calls $1.75, 1 fold.

Flop: ($6.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($6.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($6.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: $6.50

BHokie1 · #**1910** 10-23-2007, 10:58 AM

Villain unknown < 10 hands.

3 bet PF ok, just call the 4 bet?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Poker]http://www.flopturnriver.com/reviews/Online-Poker-PokerStars.php#converter]Poker Stars[/url] Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($5.80)
SB ($36.55)
Hero ($25)
UTG ($31)
UTG+1 ($24.50)
MP1 ($26.75)
MP2 ($28.35)
MP3 ($24.65)
CO ($25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.25.
4 folds, MP3 raises to $1.25, 3 folds, Hero raises to $4, MP3 raises to $6.75, Hero calls $2.75.

Flop: ($13.85) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: ($13.85) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $3, Hero calls $3.

River: ($19.85) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $7

Am I just been done on this flop or

should I of lead one of these streets.

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