Absolute Scandal

[fnord_too]

Latest Cliff's Notes

Right now, there is extremely strong evidence that cheating has taken place on absolute poker. The method was to use an account that could view the hole cards of everyone at the table. AP has denied all claims, but there is a preponderance of evidence and the latest word is that one of the accounts belongs to a (current or former) VP of AP.

At any rate, I think the likelihood that there is a major scandal brewing is extremely high. Now the question is how will that story impact legislative efforts and the pro on line poker movement in general?

I think people like the PPA, and every poker site, needs to be thinking about this and developing their spin. Obviously I see this as more reason to regulate on line gaming and allow for US providers. The opposition will tout this as clear evidence that on line gaming is all rigged and corrupt and must be stamped out to protect US citizens.

I haven't seen anything about this in the legislation forum, hence this little post. I think this scandal will have a major impact on on line poker.

[JPFisher55]

The pols will want regulation which will not prevent these types of incidents.

[fnord_too]

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The pols will want regulation which will not prevent these types of incidents.

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I think any US regulatory control will provide for a mechanism at least to get restitution if an incident like this occurs. It appears as if there really is no outside authority over AP. The gaming commission that regulates it owns it was the impression I got. (I think it is a Canadian tribe that owns it, but I am not sure).

It sure looks right now that the corruption goes straight to the top and there is no real action anyone can take other than boycotting the site. One thing that US regulation could require is that the providing site is incorporated in a WTO country.

[kitchma]

I am going to view this as test for the PPA. They need to get out in front of this and be prepared for the inevitable MSM coverage. Fingers crossed.

[Skallagrim]

Regulation could do a lot more, and protect us players in a number of good ways (it could also hurt us in a number of ways, depending on the actual regulatory scheme). Certainly If Absolute were somehow subject to US jurisdiction, complaints, findings, compensation and possible criminal charges would be possible.

Unfortunately, this level of intelligence seems far above that capable of the average American (call me a cynic). The average joe who doesnt already play will let a sensational story like this confirm his worst fears that the poker sites are all rigged cheaters just like old time riverboat gamblers. They should all be shot goddammit.

For most people no amount of reasoned argument will convince them that it is, in fact, the absence of legal US framework that lets a dirty site get away with cheating. The fun emotional appeal of identifying a "scumbag" and stringing them up (even though its only figuratively) is too compelling for most humans, at least Americans (Europeans seem slightly better at avoiding this, though far from immune). So it must be best to make these "predators" go away by "banning" them.

In other words, while the Absolute scandal is in reality evidence to support our cause, the tabloids and FOFers will spin it against us, probably quite effectively.

Skallagrim

[whangarei]

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The pols will want regulation which will not prevent these types of incidents.

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I think it could do more than you are thinking. For those following the story, a detailed history of AP user 363 and other "superusers" is critical in determining exactly what fraud took place. For example, we do not know if 363 followed POTRIPPER to his other tables in the 1K tourney. This would be incredibly damning evidence. We do not know if superuser accounts were observing cash game tables where players were apparently cheated. Regulation could provide requirements for the archival of this type of data and more. This data could then be used for restitution, prosecution, etc. Moreover, the knowledge of such an independent archival of this type of data would likely have prevented such a fraud from occurring in the first place.

[DeadMoneyDad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The pols will want regulation which will not prevent these types of incidents.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it could do more than you are thinking. For those following the story, a detailed history of AP user 363 and other "superusers" is critical in determining exactly what fraud took place. For example, we do not know if 363 followed POTRIPPER to his other tables in the 1K tourney. This would be incredibly damning evidence. We do not know if superuser accounts were observing cash game tables where players were apparently cheated. Regulation could provide requirements for the archival of this type of data and more. This data could then be used for restitution, prosecution, etc. Moreover, the knowledge of such an independent archival of this type of data would likely have prevented such a fraud from occurring in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

AP agrees to 3 party audit

US on-line poker will mean US laws to "protect" the game in the US and since the US is such a large part of the world market like most of the rest of the on-line world.

When there is a dispute or scandal like this it will not be the site operators who decide what needs to be done it will be some future on-line gaming commission or court under regulations written to "stop" these past bad acts in a future regulatory scheme.

Current operators will be judged and to some degree determine how burdensome that regulation will be based on how they handle these issues now.

The weaker their responses are now the less likely and less credible their claims of self regualtion will be taken in the future when those regulations are written.

In effect their actions now are determining how big a rake we all will pay later.


D$D

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The pols will want regulation which will not prevent these types of incidents.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it could do more than you are thinking. For those following the story, a detailed history of AP user 363 and other "superusers" is critical in determining exactly what fraud took place. For example, we do not know if 363 followed POTRIPPER to his other tables in the 1K tourney. This would be incredibly damning evidence. We do not know if superuser accounts were observing cash game tables where players were apparently cheated. Regulation could provide requirements for the archival of this type of data and more. This data could then be used for restitution, prosecution, etc. Moreover, the knowledge of such an independent archival of this type of data would likely have prevented such a fraud from occurring in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

AP agrees to 3 party audit
D$D

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The "3rd party" is already an auditor of AP. One poster said it is like having your own lawyer investigate you. In addition, AP has had time, if so inclined, to purge some incriminating evidence. In a regulatory scheme where mucho data is automatically and independently acquired and archived, safeguards are much more effective. I would even argue for a common "poker engine" that all sites share. This engine would track everything necessary to ensure game integrity.

[Jussurreal]

Here is what is mind blowing to me: There has finally been conrete evidence of flat out cheating by a major poker site (or its employees it doesn't matter its still cheating the poker players), and you guys are still in complete denial acting like this is the lone isolated incident.

Chances are good that this is not the only incident and AP is not the only site involved in things like this. Am I saying that the other major sites are cheating? No. But you have to consider how much money is at stake here. There is nobody making sure its not happening folks. There are no regulations keeping the guys playing against you from seeing your hole cards. There are no regulations keeping bots from playing. There are no regulations to keep the flops fair.

I'm just sayin' though. Do yall not understand that money talks? Have you not learned this life lesson yet?

[nath]

[ QUOTE ]
I think people like the PPA, and every poker site, needs to be thinking about this and developing their spin. Obviously I see this as more reason to regulate on line gaming and allow for US providers. The opposition will tout this as clear evidence that on line gaming is all rigged and corrupt and must be stamped out to protect US citizens.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, and if we're talking spin (vis-a-vis why it should be regulated and not outlawed), we need to emphasize that poker is an American game with a rich and deep history of folklore intertwined with the country itself. Outlawing Americans from playing the most American game on Earth seems, well, kind of un-American. If the government wants to protect its citizens, it needs to ensure that they can play poker like they want to, from the comfort of their own home, secure that they won't be cheated.