2 interesting $400 PLO8 hands

[zizazziza]

1 I thought was AI on flop as well. Since he raised 50% of his stack, I think I can find a fold but expect him to have a WSD or something like that.

[TheStation]

[ QUOTE ]
*Edit - Station please do not provide results or chat from this hand right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldnt think of doing that [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I will never post anything to ruin any hand discussion

Im actually not even curious enough yet to cheat and just look for myself as i want to think about this more

[garcia1000]

These are interesting hands with diverse opinions on both hands.

I would definitely be interested in hearing analysis of why you thought which one of either one was the right one and how close EV-wise the decision is of calling or folding for either the first or the second hand in terms of EV and your explanation for why you thought that and why you think whether the decision is an easy one or not.

[booger]

Hand 1: You play it utg, then call the raise pf, what are you wanting to hit with this turd of a hand?? If you're going to play it then jam and pray.
Hand 2: Jam the utg pot bet on the flop, raise and reraise.

[PorkPieHat]

Ok, hand one is probably a push at this point because if you are going to play [censored] like that then you deserve what you get when you flop a 'monster'. Dave does not want preflop discussion here, but he probably deserves preflop berating, lol.

At first glance I thought hand 2 is an easy fold, and 2 dimes backs me up. Here's the possible worst case:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3973247
pokenum -o8 ac 9c 4h 5h - kc kd qs jh - ah 2h 5c 6s -- 8c ks 3s
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing Ks 3s 8c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Ac 9c 5h 4h 28 52 614 0 96 371 9 0.117
Qs Kc Kd Jh 187 563 103 0 0 0 0 0.563
6s 5c Ah 2h 43 51 615 0 371 96 9 0.320

Here's something better:
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3973248
pokenum -o8 ac 9c 4h 5h - kc kd qs jh - ah 4d 3c 8s -- 8c ks 3s
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing Ks 3s 8c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Ac 9c 5h 4h 24 73 582 11 126 0 387 0.301
Qs Kc Kd Jh 148 579 87 0 0 0 0 0.546
8s 3c 4d Ah 2 3 652 11 0 48 387 0.153

And here's the likely best you can hope for based on the betting:
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3973250
pokenum -o8 ac 9c 4h 5h - kc kd qs jh - ah 3d 3c 8s -- 8c ks 3s
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing Ks 3s 8c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Ac 9c 5h 4h 87 88 578 0 521 0 9 0.463
Qs Kc Kd Jh 117 541 125 0 0 0 0 0.494
8s 3c 3d Ah 16 37 629 0 0 120 9 0.043

I'm not sure how often you can expect to see something like set over set with no reasonable low draws with this action. Even if you put BB on just a random A2 hand cuz he's short, what do you expect UTG to have that you beat? 2 pair? Ok, let's give him that:
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3973261
pokenum -o8 ac 9c 4h 5h - kc 8d qs jh - ah 2d 3c 8s -- 8c ks 3s
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 666 enumerated boards containing Ks 3s 8c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Ac 9c 5h 4h 52 91 575 0 158 355 0 0.191
Qs Kc 8d Jh 120 456 210 0 0 0 0 0.432
8s 3c 2d Ah 75 119 547 0 355 58 0 0.376

Now you could pull the shorty out of the equation when discussing the side pot with UTG, and if you think he sucks that hard then you're ok vs 2 pair w/no low obviously:
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=3973274
pokenum -o8 ac 9c 4h 5h - kc 8d qs jh -- 8c ks 3s
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 820 enumerated boards containing Ks 3s 8c
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Ac 9c 5h 4h 151 151 669 0 630 0 0 0.484
Qs Kc 8d Jh 178 669 151 0 0 0 0 0.516

Of course, OK means that you aren't a huge dog, just a tiny one. Either way, fold imo.

[howzit]

pork pie hat, the suits in the twodimes sim are wrong.

dave has spades buddy.

[boscoboy]

1) Fold

2) Push and pray - then rebuy? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[howzit]

to add color to my post:

hand 1:

you guys are not taking the preflop betting order into account. Button raised preflop, DAVE LED INTO A multiplayer field and then MP2 repotted him by putting in half his stack. MP2's range should squarely put him on a straight and will be holding a better low draw majority of hte time. and even if he doesn't, MP2 is going to be on a set or wrap + probable better low draw the rest of the time leaving Dave as a dog. this hand is dogshit preflop and a turd after the flop action.

Dave i'm guessing you don't want to hear about preflop in this hand because you know it's atrocious. (i'm defintiely calling the kettle black here.)

hand 2: in this spot, you need to discount number of outs available to you. with the short stack possibly stealing your spade outs OR pulling a donkey move with a pair + NLD i think it's a muck.

for those saying good price so call, my math comes out to 821:500. (how is this ratio possible in PL? isn't this a no-limit hand?)

the real price you're getting is worse than that because you're going to be calling the last of hte UTG $ on a blank turn.

[howzit]

[ QUOTE ]

second hand its less likely he's bluffing. problem is that vs two guys you can be even moneyish for main pot w and behind in the sidepot.

[/ QUOTE ]

this point was in my subconcious but i think it's the other way around.

IMO, it's more likely Dave chops the side pot on a low card.

[PorkPieHat]

[ QUOTE ]
pork pie hat, the suits in the twodimes sim are wrong.

dave has spades buddy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Crap, I suck at copy/paste. Gimme a few mins to re-edit.