scary board with top pair

slicer65 · #1 09-22-2006, 07:35 AM

I had top pair and a straight draw. Table was still pretty soft with calling stations. But the flop was a bit scary. Was my play to agreessive? Should I have just called with pot odds?

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: calikid96 is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, 1 folds, MP3 calls, 3 folds, calikid96 checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
calikid96 checks, MP1 bets, MP3 raises, calikid96 3-bets, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
calikid96 bets, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

River: (9.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
calikid96 bets, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

sean c · #2 09-22-2006, 07:43 AM

Raise pre flop and bet the flop. The river bet is good as long as you can fold to a raise.

Python · #3 09-22-2006, 07:55 AM

Preflop: Definitely you should have bet for value here with AQ.

Flop: You have top pair with very good kicker. Straight and flush draws are possible. The pot is small, so bet first to protect your hand(don't check raise).
You may not reraise the two raisers. It doesn't protect your hand and it is not for value since you don't have the nuts.
You have five outs but you have to coldcall. So, your pot odds are only worth one third (about 1:24). The pot is small, your odds are horrible so fold!

jrz1972 · #4 09-22-2006, 08:10 AM

Raise preflop and bet the flop.

Please stop pointlessly check-raising your strong hands on the flop. When you go for a check-raise, you should have a clear, well-articulated, specific reason for doing so. Here, you've got two LPPs in the hand, so going for a check-raise is insane. All you're doing is offering them the chance to take a free card. The way to beat calling stations is to bet and let them call with their junk; you do not beat them by letting them bet your hand for you.

slicer65 · #5 09-22-2006, 09:02 AM

I understand that by check-raising im keep playes in the hand. But if i would have bet first, I would have givn the calling station with a flush draw the oppurtinity to make a good pot odds call. Is there anything I could have done to make the flush draw less attractive or for this hand is that the risk I have to take?

jrz1972 · #6 09-22-2006, 09:06 AM

There is absolutely nothing you can do to get flush draws out. They are going to be getting the right odds to call to the river no matter what you do on the flop. The best you can do is to exploit your equity edge by betting.

Sushiglutton · #7 09-22-2006, 10:00 AM

Raise pf, bet flop. Rest is fine. Fold river if raised.

Dastone · #8 09-22-2006, 10:11 AM

Get used to the flush draws not going anywhere.

They're your friend to the end.

Quester · #9 09-22-2006, 11:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I understand that by check-raising im keep playes in the hand. But if i would have bet first, I would have givn the calling station with a flush draw the oppurtinity to make a good pot odds call. Is there anything I could have done to make the flush draw less attractive or for this hand is that the risk I have to take?

[/ QUOTE ]

A checkraise here does nothing. First of all, you don't know if either opponent will bet at this flop (although it is likely) because they didn't show any strength preflop. It may be checked through, so you may be giving infinite odds to drawing hands. If MP1 fires at it (which he did), then we can't use a c/r to force out MP3. When it was bet and raised, 3-betting is just bloating the pot. You won't get either opponent to fold on later streets.

If you raised preflop this would be much easier to play. As it is, I'd probably fold to the bet and raise on the flop. We're out of position, there are a lot of ways we can be beat, and we're investing too much on what was a relatively small pot.

Low Limit Loser · #10 09-22-2006, 02:05 PM

raise pf

bet or c/r the flop = I'm fine going either way. If I go for the C/R, I am definitely not 3 betting it though being OOP and all

The River is interesting. I often check hands like this due to the assumption that

I will generally only get called by better hands

I might fold some hands that would of bet but not called.

I look to induce bluffs here.

I also want to see the showdown as a donk may raise here thinking his AT 2 pair hand might be good, or he could be bluff raisng a scary board. Pot is big, I'd like to see if MHIG.

LLL