Lots of differing opinions on this one

Justin A · #1 02-19-2007, 04:11 PM

Wynn 30/60 game that was horrible but has gotten better thanks to a weird sort of psycho guy sitting down. He plays every single hand and almost always gets to the river. Once he starts betting he will never give up regardless of turn and river cards. Normal hand reading just basically needs to be thrown out the window, mostly because the guy clearly doesn't know the value of his own hands.

We're five handed, and Sublime raises UTG, crazy cold calls, I call in the BB with K9.

Flop is K54 with a flush draw that I have no part of. I bet, Sublime raises, crazy 3bets, I call, Sublime calls.

Turn is an offsuit 6. Check, check, crazy bets, I call, and now Sublime agonizes for a while before calling. I think he has a made hand rather than a weird draw.

River pairs the 4. Check, check, crazy bets, I...?

Howard Beale · #2 02-19-2007, 04:22 PM

At least call and fold to Sublime's raise while cursing at yourself for getting this far?

bdaddy · #3 02-19-2007, 04:30 PM

10 to 1 on a check raise to get sublime to fold???? I might c/r the turn too.

HOWMANY · #4 02-19-2007, 04:48 PM

I have no idea why Sublime would be agonizing here with KQ/AK, so I don't see how you don't have him beat. I'd check to crazy again and think for at least a few seconds for calling and pretend like you actually have some sort of decision and hopefully collect an overcall from JJ/QQ. I don't want to c/r and walk into spazzes 3bet when I think we have a chance of collecting 2 bets by putting only 1 in on the river. Then again, Sublime is actually good, and not a crappy live dumbtight player, so he will be putting you on some sort of hand and he surely knows that you know he has a hand that probably can't beat a K. At that point we get into the brain melting mind game of you should call because it makes it look like you have worse than a K but in reality you want an overcall, while he might think you shouldn't raise because you know he doesn't have a K, so a raise from you either means you completed some sort of draw or you are trying to squeeze him out, in which case he should probably call since like 1 draw completed here only if the 4 on the flop wasn't a flush card. If he's thinking like this then a c/r might be a fantastic play and might result in an explosion of dollars your way. If he's going to just give you credit for completing your draw by accidentally making trips or having a good hand then I would prefer calling.

If you c/r and Sublime folds can you fold to retard 3 bet?

private joker · #5 02-19-2007, 05:39 PM

Justin, why didn't you raise the turn? If I understand your read, you have crazy beat, so pound on him. Getting Sublime to fold a hand with outs (or even KT!) is a good thing too.

brick · #6 02-19-2007, 05:50 PM

I'd like to hear about the differing opinions.

I think folding is out of the question and raising only folds KT/KJ or some hands you are ahead of. So I pick door 3 and call.

PokerBob · #7 02-19-2007, 07:03 PM

if sublime has a king, it's better than yours. i think you have to c/r the turn to put the screws to sublime.

Smarty · #8 02-19-2007, 09:17 PM

As echoed earlier, you need to raise to knock out Sublime. The river is likely the perfect time to do so.

sublime · #9 02-19-2007, 11:07 PM

one small addition...i am playing my C game at best here and justin knows it. the game sucked, so i was just fooling around.

Barry · #10 02-20-2007, 12:33 AM

Was it Joe, Mike or Chris? All 3 or them kind of fit that description

Justin why are you calling PF? And Sub, why are you playing your C game in a bad 30 game? On the flop can you ever be good here when Sublime raises your bet and the wack job 3 bets?

For those of you advocating a turn c/r, do you think that he is both ahead of the wack job and can get Sublime to fold a better hand enough of the time?