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#12
10-07-2007, 09:16 AM
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Re: Big Pot River Decision
[ QUOTE ]
Barron, "you might see AdKx enough" Oops! [/ QUOTE ] ugh, lol. i got it right w/ the AA haha but missed it with the AK. man this is the absolute worst spot ever. given that i think you can just check fold. there isn't a single hand that 4 bets the turn that you now beat on the river that i can think of. i have to change my vote to bet/fold. there is only literally 1 hand that you beat and it is sooo unlikely to have played this way: QQd. good catch el d. Barron 
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#13
10-07-2007, 04:34 PM
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Re: Big Pot River Decision
there is no way that playing 22 preflop OOP to three bets is good poker. If you are desparate to call the river, then you should have bet out, prepared to fold the raise that is undoubtedly coming.
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#14
10-07-2007, 04:39 PM
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Re: Big Pot River Decision
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Barron, "you might see AdKx enough" Oops! [/ QUOTE ] ugh, lol. i got it right w/ the AA haha but missed it with the AK. man this is the absolute worst spot ever. given that i think you can just check fold. there isn't a single hand that 4 bets the turn that you now beat on the river that i can think of. i have to change my vote to bet/fold. there is only literally 1 hand that you beat and it is sooo unlikely to have played this way: QQd. good catch el d. Barron [/ QUOTE ] ugh, man i'm making mistakes everywhere...i obviously mean CHECK FOLD on the river not BET FOLD lol Barron
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#15
10-07-2007, 05:00 PM
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RESULTS:
I guess I stand corrected pre-flop. I knew I was gambling, but didn't think it was that bad. Like I said, it's easy enough to play and I was against two aggressive players, both of whom I think I play better than, and one who doesn't play well at all. I'd like to understand pokerstove a little better, since it says 22 has a little less than 30% equity against the hand ranges I figure to be against. That's not worth 3 to 1? Anyway....
I checked, villian bet, and I did fold, since I'm beat here over 99% of the time. I never did learn what villian had (but if I could've bet all my chips it was Ad,Kx, I would have). The button told me he had AA (without the Ad, of course). Also, notice how poorly he played his hand! (a big factor in why I chose to play). Not to be results orientated, but there's no way I'm winning this pot. Had I 3-bet the flop as I normally would've and got CO to fold, I eventually lose to button's AA. It was just an unforunate hand, I guess. I'll think more about my calling pre-flop. For the record, if I thought they both played much better than me, I definitely would have folded. Thanks for the advice all.
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#16
10-07-2007, 09:01 PM
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Re: Big Pot River Decision
[ QUOTE ]
20-40 CO opens, button 3-bets, and I take a flyer from the bb with 22. CO caps it and both the button and I call. *CO is a good, solid, thinking player who is capable of anything, but normally isn't too tricky. Button tries to play well, but just isn't there yet. Flop comes 532 with two diamonds. I check, CO bets, button raises, I call, CO calls. *Normally, I'd never slowplay here, but I wanted it to look like I'm on diamonds. I know button has an overpair, and wanted to find if CO had one too. Either way, I'm sure the turn is getting bet. Turn is the Kd. Since, I played it like I had diamonds and there's no way I'm chancing it getting checked around, I bet. CO raises, button cold-calls, I 3-bet, CO 4-bets, button folds, I call. River is a 4h. I check, CO bets. I....? [/ QUOTE ] You can fold. The flush and the wheel draws both got there. You should fold this preflop. You don't have close to the proper odds. On the flop: there are flush and wheel draws and you have a little set. You need to put your foot on the gas all the way here making draws pay full price. When not in the blind you need to be certain of a 5 way pot to put in two bets with small pocket pairs. In the big blind perhaps a 4 player pot is sufficient, but not three. You also don't know if the original raiser will come back and make it four bets. This is a terrible preflop call.
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#17
10-07-2007, 09:12 PM
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Re: RESULTS:
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I stand corrected pre-flop. I knew I was gambling, but didn't think it was that bad. Like I said, it's easy enough to play and I was against two aggressive players, both of whom I think I play better than, and one who doesn't play well at all. I'd like to understand pokerstove a little better, since it says 22 has a little less than 30% equity against the hand ranges I figure to be against. That's not worth 3 to 1? Anyway.... [/ QUOTE ] equity is based off of all in. meaning you get to see all 5 cards. it being "easy to play" means you fold when you don't hit a set or better. that means you need about 7.5:1 (including implied odds) to call pf. [ QUOTE ] I checked, villian bet, and I did fold, since I'm beat here over 99% of the time. I never did learn what villian had (but if I could've bet all my chips it was Ad,Kx, I would have). The button told me he had AA (without the Ad, of course). Also, notice how poorly he played his hand! (a big factor in why I chose to play). Not to be results orientated, but there's no way I'm winning this pot. Had I 3-bet the flop as I normally would've and got CO to fold, I eventually lose to button's AA. It was just an unforunate hand, I guess. I'll think more about my calling pre-flop. For the record, if I thought they both played much better than me, I definitely would have folded. Thanks for the advice all. [/ QUOTE ] i don't think anybody said you'd win the pot. but good call on folding. no chance guy gives up AA lol. possibly even holds onto AK for 2 bets. Barron
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#18
10-07-2007, 09:27 PM
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Re: Big Pot River Decision
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not the best at analyzing hands from a mathematical standpoint and I certainly wouldn't fault anyone for mucking twos here. But I think my pre-flop decision is closer than some of you guys are allowing for. According to my pokerstove, 22 has just shy of 30% equity share 3-way, against an agressive open raise in the cutoff, and a typical button's 3-betting range. Since it's a fairly easy hand to play after the flop, it doesn't have to get 4-bet, one player doesn't play well, they are both aggressive, and I'm getting 3 to 1, I think it's slightly better than "meh" here, but I'll quickly concede not by much. [/ QUOTE ] On hands that you hit the flop or fold, put two dead cards on the board when you stove it. This shows the equity with 3 cards to come. I don't think the equity is there. It makes no sense to look at equity with 5 cards to go if you do not intend to call bets on the flop and turn.
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#19
10-07-2007, 09:40 PM
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Re: Big Pot River Decision
i dont really mind calling preflop due to the raisers being cut off and button, but not 3 betting on the flop is horrible. ive played alot with you and i think most of the time you would 3 bet diamonds on the flop which plays to your advantage because you get more action when you have a hand. i think with all that action on the turn you have to lay it down when you dont improve on the river. people at resorts dont 4 bet the turn on boards like that with 3 people in without beating bottom set.
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#20
10-07-2007, 10:19 PM
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Re: Big Pot River Decision
[ QUOTE ]
i dont really mind calling preflop due to the raisers being cut off and button, but not 3 betting on the flop is horrible. ive played alot with you and i think most of the time you would 3 bet diamonds on the flop which plays to your advantage because you get more action when you have a hand. i think with all that action on the turn you have to lay it down when you dont improve on the river. people at resorts dont 4 bet the turn on boards like that with 3 people in without beating bottom set. [/ QUOTE ] You've played alot with me or Kevin? I didn't think anyone knew who I was.
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