Folding preflop to 3-bet?

[Apanage]

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That is the price you pay for being OOP, and there's no way to avoid that, even if you have a better hand.

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We can avoid it by folding preflop. Our preflop equity against his range is worth ~ 0.7BB (our EV).And that includes when we suck him out on turn and river which we never get the chance to do.
I believe that we very often lose more than that postflop being OOP because we are dominated by a majority of his possible hand combos.

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How are you folding the best hand here? I guess if you flop the deuce and the board is something horrid like 2-K-Q-J-8 and he has A9 you could be doing that, but in most cases we're showing down if we hit a piece. Please tell me that you're never folding if you hit the Ace.

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We are now talking A4o/A5o(A2o was against SB).Of course I´m not folding hitting an ace. (I suppose that was meant to offend me). I don´t know about yoú but I´m not continuing without a draw on flop so often I fold A2o letting his Kx combos win.I can also see many two broadway and/or 3 flushboards where I might fold the best hand even if I have hit my kicker.
And even if I continue with my weak hand I will give freecards like no one else.

If someone else spots me folding to a 3-bet preflop 1 in 10000 hands I have a hard time to see how that is exploitable.

I also think sqvirrel made a good post explaining why I have begun thinking of these kind of 3-bet situations.

[jstill]

smarter people than me can explain y not to... im sure this has come up before.

just dont do it, ur equity pre is enough to call in a vacuum and u have position... I cant imagine its not profitable to call that one more sb getting 6:1 with A2o but I have no empirical evidence.

Thinking about the mistakes u make on the next streets is a bit backwards Ive heard people say but yes it does determine the profitablity of a hand (vs a 3bet)

I think ud be better off just not opening hands u wanted to fold to a 3bet tbh, I dont think metagame or exploitability are the arguments against folding here, just pot odds, position and equity are the mitigating factors for calling.

oop would obviously make it closer but Id still never do it.. I thikn frequently making the mitsake of folding incorrectly against his range will be a greater EV difference than the playability of the hand postflop vs a 3bettor (ie calling won't be less profitable long term because of implied odds/ future mistakes than folding which is certainly -EV in a vacuum). If the total EV of the hand is drastically negative when u open it because of how badly it plays vs a 3bet dont open it from x position, but once u do raise it I think current equity for one sb outweighs future negative implied odds of calling.

[bobhalford]

Raise/folding preflop? With A2o? Bananas!

[milesdyson]

i really dont think you can fold in position.

call down an ace and bet when checked to.

if you flop anything better than one pair, raise somewhere.

isn't there a way to run this type of thing in some poker software?

just plug in a real tight range for the 3-bettor in the SB, like 88+, A9+, KQ/KJ, and see. calling is gonna be +ev imo.

[jstill]

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isn't there a way to run this type of thing in some poker software?

just plug in a real tight range for the 3-bettor in the SB, like 88+, A9+, KQ/KJ, and see. calling is gonna be +ev imo.

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its obviously +EV in a vacuum to call the 1 sb from an equity standpoint but that wont take into account the negative implied odds/ future mistakes that determine whether its truly profitable for hero to call the 3bet (unless theres some software im unaware of, which I dont tihnk is the case).

however I think the mistake of folding will outweight negative implied odds here as long as hero isn't spewing postflop.

as miles said call and bet when ck'd to with a pair we hvae position that accounts for a lot here (ie calling the 3bet could be more EV than just the EV of calling preflop because of it, though I doubt thats the case, it still seems pretty likely calling the 3bet will yield a long run profit (or be less -EV than folding vs sb's 3betting range).

[sqvirrel]

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i really dont think you can fold in position.

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Sure you can, but the circumstances under which it is correct is pretty rare and you would not be making more than a tiny mistake in LL poker to never fold to a 3-bet from the blind. While there are definitely spots where a fold is tempting, for example a sb 3-bet from a 30/3 type player, you will often be costing yourself more by playing perfect poker and making "expert" folds. There are plenty of strategy points to perfect before isolating ideal spots for preflop raise/fold lines should merit anything more than passing consideration.

[sharpie]

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Anyone thinking of folding?

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Never!

[Scary_Tiger]

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Anyone thinking of folding?

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Never!

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[TheHip41]

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Anyone thinking of folding?

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Never!

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raise/folding to a 3bet PF is stupid.

If you can't call a 3bet, then don't raise PF.

when you raise PF, you are saying your hand is good enough to call a three bet


and online, it shouldn't even be discussed.

The only time I would consider it is playing live, and it's folded to me in the CO, where I posted, and I raise, and the butotn and sb fold, and old man river, who plays like 50/1/.8 three bets, then I might fold 63o, or some junk.

The flip side of that argument is, you know he has AA or KK, so if you hit two pair, you get to own him, and when you flop just a 6, you can raise the flop, check the turn, and check the river.

[ILOVEPOKER929]

I have only raised preflop and folded to a 3bet once in my life. It was 3way but I knew the guy had AA/KK 100% of the time. The guy did have AA, but the flop came out KKQ. I think this proves that raise/folding to a 3bet preflop is stupid. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]