Borgata PR sports betting charges being brought

[nineinchal]

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Any bookmaking or loan-sharking that went on was wrong.


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Agree.

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Well I disagree. Bookmaking is illegal but not wrong, in my opinion. Loansharking (usury) I'm not clear on. What is its exact definition as distinct from banking loans or credit card loans?

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The difference is when you default on your bank loan, a young telemarketer type calls you and tells you that your payment is late. When you default to a loanshark, he shows up with a bat at your house, to assault you in front of your wife and kids. Maybe two guys will use a pair of plyers on your thumb, etc. Get it?

[*TT*]

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Any bookmaking or loan-sharking that went on was wrong.


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Agree.

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Well I disagree. Bookmaking is illegal but not wrong, in my opinion. Loansharking (usury) I'm not clear on. What is its exact definition as distinct from banking loans or credit card loans?

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The difference is when you default on your bank loan, a young telemarketer type calls you and tells you that your payment is late. When you default to a loanshark, he shows up with a bat at your house, to assault you in front of your wife and kids. Maybe two guys will use a pair of plyers on your thumb, etc. Get it?

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you have watched too many movies. Yes this can happen, but thats the extreme example.

[nineinchal]

[/ QUOTE ] Well I disagree. Bookmaking is illegal but not wrong, in my opinion. Loansharking (usury) I'm not clear on. What is its exact definition as distinct from banking loans or credit card loans?

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The difference is when you default on your bank loan, a young telemarketer type calls you and tells you that your payment is late. When you default to a loanshark, he shows up with a bat at your house, to assault you in front of your wife and kids. Maybe two guys will use a pair of plyers on your thumb, etc. Get it?

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you have watched too many movies. Yes this can happen, but thats the extreme example.

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I grew up in Brooklyn, where a lot worse can happen. I didn't want to get more graphic than I described. However, I have witnessed much worse and read about much more horrific forms of torture used by loansharks.

Remember, levels of violence have a tendency to escalate if left unchecked, especially with mob involvement.

[Central Limit]

You're saying that the difference between usury and credit card lending is entirely in the way defaulting on the loan is handled? Because I thought it had to do with the rate of interest being charged.

So, in Ian's case, did he actually show up at someone's house with a baseball bat or at least threaten to? You seem to be implying that he did. And, if he didn't, how can he be convicted? What evidence do they need to convict an accused loanshark?

Also, if he didn't, WHY are you implying that he did? Do you want him to get convicted? If so, why? Do you know him? Did he harm you in some way? Your point of view confuses me.


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The difference is when you default on your bank loan, a young telemarketer type calls you and tells you that your payment is late. When you default to a loanshark, he shows up with a bat at your house, to assault you in front of your wife and kids. Maybe two guys will use a pair of plyers on your thumb, etc. Get it?

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[nineinchal]

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You're saying that the difference between usury and credit card lending is entirely in the way defaulting on the loan is handled? Because I thought it had to do with the rate of interest being charged.

So, in Ian's case, did he actually show up at someone's house with a baseball bat or at least threaten to? You seem to be implying that he did. And, if he didn't, how can he be convicted? What evidence do they need to convict an accused loanshark?

Also, if he didn't, WHY are you implying that he did? Do you want him to get convicted? If so, why? Do you know him? Did he harm you in some way? Your point of view confuses me.


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I am not saying he did anything. All of this was assumed public knowledge previously discussed on other threads on 2+2. The court will eventually decide.


The difference is when you default on your bank loan, a young telemarketer type calls you and tells you that your payment is late. When you default to a loanshark, he shows up with a bat at your house, to assault you in front of your wife and kids. Maybe two guys will use a pair of plyers on your thumb, etc. Get it?

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Of course the rate of interest would be excessive. In the articles written about this case, they even mention the rate if I recall correctly.That is the second big difference, with the first big difference remaining the extortionate means used to collect.

I am sure law enforcement has direct evidence such as written records, emails, phone calls, corroborated by eyewitness testimony, especially if the authorities are pressing charges.


I am not saying he did anything. All of this was assumed public knowledge previously discussed on other threads on 2+2. The court will eventually decide.

What I am saying is, if it was a loan shark ring, the tactics employed by most to enforce collection is a brutal, vicious, form of torture. Especially those who are affiliated with the mob. Just wait and see if this case goes to court, it will make for some eye opening, paper selling reading.

If he did these things, I want him to be convicted and imprisoned, so that the punishment fits the crime.

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[/ QUOTE ] Well I disagree. Bookmaking is illegal but not wrong, in my opinion. Loansharking (usury) I'm not clear on. What is its exact definition as distinct from banking loans or credit card loans?

[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is when you default on your bank loan, a young telemarketer type calls you and tells you that your payment is late. When you default to a loanshark, he shows up with a bat at your house, to assault you in front of your wife and kids. Maybe two guys will use a pair of plyers on your thumb, etc. Get it?

[/ QUOTE ]

you have watched too many movies. Yes this can happen, but thats the extreme example.

[/ QUOTE ]

I grew up in Brooklyn, where a lot worse can happen. I didn't want to get more graphic than I described. However, I have witnessed much worse and read about much more horrific forms of torture used by loansharks.

Remember, levels of violence have a tendency to escalate if left unchecked, especially with mob involvement.

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I'd hate to have you on a jury, you assume way too much.

I grew up in the adjacent town to where John Gotti Jr lives (Babylon), my childhood friends were the suns and daughters of associates and solders. I was surrounded by this since I was a kid, most of what you assume isn't true - its all about the fear that it could occur. A loanshark isn't dumb, he knows that if he breaks someones thumbs to collect a debt then the heat will be on him - which destroys his business. They are business men, they worry about things that normal businesses worry about like marketing, public perception, etc etc etc. Its bad business to create an upset customer, the customer's actions can put the loanshark out of business for good. Fear is a loansharks #1 collection tool, violence is very very very rarely used.

[DrewOnTilt]

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I'd hate to have you on a jury, you assume way too much.

I grew up in the adjacent town to where John Gotti Jr lives (Babylon), my childhood friends were the suns and daughters of associates and solders. I was surrounded by this since I was a kid, most of what you assume isn't true - its all about the fear that it could occur. A loanshark isn't dumb, he knows that if he breaks someones thumbs to collect a debt then the heat will be on him - which destroys his business. They are business men, they worry about things that normal businesses worry about like marketing, public perception, etc etc etc. Its bad business to create an upset customer, the customer's actions can put the loanshark out of business for good. Fear is a loansharks #1 collection tool, violence is very very very rarely used.

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Read the biography of Stuey Ungar by Peter Alson and Nolan Dalla. Ungar's father was a bookie, and according to the book never used violent collection means. The best way to get a debt paid was to threaten to cut off the action of the person who owed it - to a degenerate, this is worse than violence.

Again, loan sharking is wrong, but some posters in this thread have seen too many Marlon Brando flicks.

[pocketpared]

People that think loansharks are cuddly little teddybears trying to make an honest wage better get away from home a little more often. I've personally witnessed one beating and the aftermath of another.
BTW, one of the clowns in the Borgata bust lost 50K at a blackjack table and grabbed the dealer by the shirt and threatened his family. Whoever sticks up for these lowlifes must not have very high values.

The indictment charges that from Jan. 1, 1994 through Nov. 22, 2002, the defendants used extortion, threats of physical violence and actual violence to enforce the collection of usurious loan payments. The investigation documented that numerous individuals or ‘clients’ of the loansharking operation were required to make dozens of loan payments totaling thousands of dollars above and beyond the initial loan. The indictment charges that payments in excess of 50 percent interest were demanded from the victims.
http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/relea...licomo1220.htm

The defendants GIGLIO, FISHER, SPITALE, DACUNTO, GARCIA, PALMIERI, LAFORTE, and STOCCO are charged with a loansharking conspiracy, marked by violence and threats. GARCIA, for example, bragged to GIGLIO about threatening a debtor: “I went there . . . I smacked him right in front of all his f___n’ friends, 40 guys in the club . . . I smacked him and I dragged him out by the hair and put the thing to his face . . .”
http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/nye/pr/2006/2006Dec21.html

In a conversation in early 1984 between Cafaro and one "Pete," Cafaro states that he told Frankie Salerno to "get a hold of this kid [that owes him money] and bring him to me. He wants to be a wise guy. He told the guy he wants to bet from a thousand to $2500 and he thinks he ain't going to pay? I'll knock his f-----g brains in." Later on, Pete tells Cafaro: "I put up with him Fish. I came and I gave him a beating." Cafaro replies: "Good he deserves it." Pete says: "I gave him a beating. He was all full of blood. His f-----g face was all marked. Every f-----g shot I gave him, [**13] he had a lump like this, cuts here, cuts there; ah, I, he ain't got no face." Cafaro replies: "Yeah, you banged him up good, f--k him." T. 41.
http://www.thelaborers.net/court_cas...1986-04-02.htm

[punkass]

whoa

[pocketpared]

Most loansharks won't even lend you money unless someone vouches for you so they now have 2 sources to go after in case of a default.