Quitting my crap job to grind 2/5+ live??

[pig4bill]

[ QUOTE ]
“You are hurting your future job prospects by doing this.”

This seriously concerns me. I do not intend to maintain this life for more than a year (unless i go seriously ROBUSTO). Poker is great, and a fantastic way for a kid like me to earn decent cash, but I don’t think I’ll be satisfied with my accomplishments 20 years down the line if I’m still a Vegas hustler (again, unless I is ROBUSTO). I want to ask some of the older, respectable members of the B&M community, how much will a year of this hurt my resume? I plan on graduate school when I’m 25-26 in law, international relations, or something completely different. Is it going to be extremely hard to explain a year spent doing this? If this is the case, I may seriously reconsider this choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it's just for a year, just make up some BS like you went backpacking through Europe or did some Peace Corps-like thing. Something that can't be verified.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
He's saying that the skills could be useful, not utilizing poker on a resume. You wouldn't have to ever make an issue of the fact that you've played poker, simply applying some of the skills you've learned at the table might help. This in and of itself is debatable, but thats the reasoning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, he didn't specify either.

There is no doubt to me that the skills can transfer over. The problem can come with trying to use that on a resume or when answering any questions as to how they acquired said skill. That is IF you're going to try to use it as relevant 'experience' when going for a job.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
As for your other whines, well boo hoo, those are attributes of every self-employed career.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, as far as degenerates and scummy people you will run into and meet, they aren't. I think there are more miserable morons and petty idiots in poker than most any other 'self-employed' job out there.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you hate money?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll take balance over money any day.

[ QUOTE ]
Can't play that many tables you exclaim?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure what you're referring to here. Must be addressing someone else.

[ QUOTE ]
I speak from experience...I used to be a live pro..I crushed the games I played..I then moved to online...I still play live for fun...

[/ QUOTE ]

That's fine if it works for you. More power to ya. My experience is online is friggin' boring.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
My two pennies about playing full time, ie becoming a regular somewhere. Your winrate will probably drop. Especially as a young guy, the regulars will assume you are weak/underrolled etc and you will be getting paid off a lot more often (in my experience). Once you show up every day and people know how you play the game won't be as easy.

[/ QUOTE ]

You overestimate the abilities of many regulars in cardrooms.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you dont think its realistic to expect 5bb/100 over the long run? 100 hands live takes three hours. you think all the 2-5 and 5-10 grinders in vegas are making around $8 to $15 an hour? actually i guess you are saying that they make that if they are very good, and on an upswing. i could easily make a living in the US playing 1-2 at any strip casino. when i first got here (mid june) i had never played live before, and that first week i played i ran bad (i kept track of all my all-ins--wrote them all down and calculated ev to make sure i understood where i was) to the tune of about -800 in equity and was still up ~300 after about 25-30 hours of play. since then i changed styles to adjust better to live play and now feel that i play full ring no limit cash perfectly and i have been running for over two months at 50bbs/100 like clockwork. and it hasnt been that im up some weeks and down other weeks. i lose a buyin about once every four or five buyins. most days consist of one to three buyins. (if i win or lose a buyin i go to a different table or rebuy.) so seldom does a day pass when i am down for the day, even though my "days" are often only like four hours. i also think that i could adopt a style that would have more variance, but enjoy an even better win rate. i just hate losing so much (im seriously devastated whenever i lose) that i choose a style that limits variance and still has a good win rate.

so i can personally attest to 50bb/100 consistently for a fairly long term (like 250-300hrs), but if youve ever been to a casino and seen the same grinders cashing out racks of chips and you know they never stack-off light, can you honestly believe they are making 3bb/100? thats like 40 bucks a day. i think a lot of people in this thread are failing to appreciate the caliber of retard that represents the average live player.

[/ QUOTE ]

250-300 hours is not a long time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good catch. Even referring to 250-300 hours as long term is a joke. It's barely a blip.

b

[Diana Ross Fan]

[ QUOTE ]

I think this is the most important piece of advice in this thread.

I was recently playing with a former high stakes kid (maybe late 20's) who was 'slumming it' in my 20/40 game. He told me the story about how he had lost a lot in previous months taking shots at 1-200 and up and since he doesn't have any real world skills or experience is forced to drop down and grind it up again. Honestly, I felt a little sorry for him.

Getting experience in the workworld and then playing poker is a perfect combination in my own nonprofessional opinion. Sure, you want to play poker now but what about in 10 years? in 5 years? What about when you realize that 2/5nl isn't going to be pulling in mega bucks but only enough to make ends meet. Do you really think it's going to be easy to all of a sudden get a good job? Let alone a job that makes anywhere near the money you're used to making.

Sidenote: I graduated college in May with the same aspirations. However , within weeks of spending my weekends at casinos (which I had been doign for months) and spending my weekdays bored in my apartment, I needed something more. So I got a job. It's not a great job by any means and the pay is miniscule compared to my poker income, but it keeps be engaged in the real world, I dont' have to surround myself with miserable people (people actually enjoy cmoing to work here) and most importantly I can still play on the weekends.

I think there's a good balance to be found.

Good luck though with what you choose.

[/ QUOTE ]

Listen to this man and Microbob. You can avoid a lot of the problems mentioned above by keeping a part time job while you play poker, especially if it is vaguely related to your field. (hold the resume, provides income during the dry spells etc.)

Of course education and work will provide a better life than poker, but those things will still be there. The poker world might not be.

And for your own sake (Just in case you haven't) read the books relevant to what you want to do. Ask us if you aren't sure which ones.

[Percula]

[ QUOTE ]
“Wait, 15k is barely enough.”

This is probably true. I will probably try to accumulate about 25k in living expenses+roll before attempting this. I’ve never had the pressure of playing to eat, and I agree that minimizing this pressure through conservative bankroll management is the best way to optimize your winrate. I would love to hear what other live pros have to say about this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have played to eat three times in my life, once long before the boom, once at the beginning of the boom and once more during the boom...

Some things to tuck away in your brain...

Remain social, or you will turn into a [censored].

If you have a bad session get it our of your system before you play again. Go beat the hell out of the heavy bag, run a couple miles, something physical. Do not internalize it!

Find a couple of inexpensive "things" that you can treat yourself with from time to time. You need to have some tangible rewards you can enjoy from time. Do not splurge!

Get in the habit of visiting the bank on a regular basis if not on a regular schedule.

Don't use stop loss thinking. Play in great games for as long as you have the edge, bail as soon as you lose it. Doesn't matter if you are there for 5 minutes or 24 hours. Take the time to take breaks and honestly evaluate your edge when you are on break. A good tip, if you cant honestly evaluate your play on a break, its time to leave.

[MadeHand]

Some very good responses here so there isn't much to add really from me.

Bear in mind that you will have long losing runs in calendar terms playing live. Think of the extended losing sessions we all experience online running into thousands of hands and you may play only 1/10th of the number of hands live. That adds up to a long time live even at the softer 2/5 game. When I was in Vegas recently playing 10/20 NL I was down over maybe 25 hours of play due to cold decks etc. I met another pro who been out there for the whole 2 months of WSOP and was also down despite nearly reaching final tables and playing alot of soft cash games at the B. That kind of variance is something you must be prepared for, particularly as you will be paying living expenses all the time (no variance on not paying utility bills).

As for the human aspect, we all know that poker is made up of some decent people and a**holes. That said, when I think about it, I have met a good number of interesting, funny likeable people in my poker endeavours. If there is one good person you meet out of 30 then that's one more than you would have met if you hadn't played (unless you really are missing out on alot of potential friends by sacricifing you current job.) Heck I even met a gorgeous girl on my flight out of Vegas last time I was there, wouldn't have happened if it hadn't been for (online) poker.

[SirFelixCat]

At work, but will throw my $0.02 in when I get home tonight....