HU CASH: do i raise this river for value?

carko3 · #1 10-09-2007, 08:23 AM

Both opponent and I have been very aggressive with a lot of 3betting preflop

Nothing too crazy postflop, but we have both been very aggressive

Do I raise river here for value?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (2 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($106.75)
BB ($150.70)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $3.5, BB raises to $10, Hero calls $6.

Flop: ($19.50) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($19.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $13, Hero calls $13.

River: ($45.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $29, Hero ?

Final Pot: $215


Oh yeah you can also give me advice/abuse about flop and turn play.

I checked the flop because I felt I had such a lock I wanted him to hit something or give him a chance to bluff.

I realise flush draw/straight draw hit on the turn, but I didn't feel this was enough of a danger to scare him away yet, considering how aggressive we'd been, and also I think he could have thought that I was just randomly floating or calling with a 7 or and 8, and he might try to bluff me off it on the river with air.

jay_shark · #2 10-09-2007, 08:34 AM

The only hands I may see him possibly calling your river raise is something like k-j . He will not call with single pair hands unless there is some history between the two of you that I'm not aware of .

There are 4 ways he may have k-j and 9 ways he may have a f.h . This is some indication to suggest that raising on the river is not exactly a great play unless you expect him to call with many worse hands .

tmcdmck · #3 10-09-2007, 08:37 AM

how could you not raise this for value? you are so far ahead of his range it hurts, and you have completely underrepped your hand! furthermore, raise turn, it looks less like a slowplay if you do that, allows you too build the pot, and prevents crazy unforseeable suckouts.

but yeah what are we putting him on? backdoor str8? boat? both seem unlikely. flopped trips seems quite likely, in which case a shove would be very nice. what does him 3betting pre then checking the flop mean?

jay_shark · #4 10-09-2007, 08:42 AM

Tmcdmck , it's not about being way ahead of his range or not . It's so obvious he is ahead of his range , but that doesn't mean you should raise for value !

If you will only get calls from a fh or a straight and maybe k-j or q-j , then raising the river is pretty bad . You're putting money out there as an underdog . Remember that you never have to put money out there as an underdog if you don't have to .

hra146 · #5 10-09-2007, 08:51 AM

Jay, I dont wanna get too personal, but youve been given a hell of a lot of terrible advice since ever I remember you. We are all here to learn and commenting on hands by giving your own opinion is one way to do that.
Just try to use the words "I think" or "In my opinion" occasionally.

I know I sound like a major bitch here but it had to be said. Im sorry.

As for the hand:

Depending on reads I either minraise or shove. Sucks if he shows up with 77 or 88, but thats the only danger I can see.

edit: An alternative line would be to pot thru every street. If hes kind of a suspicious player and/or cant lay down overpairs thats the best choice imo.

jay_shark · #6 10-09-2007, 08:58 AM

Ohh I remember you . You are the person who said to fold a-7 suited on the first hand to an innocent looking button raise .

I can go on and on but I don't want to embarrass you .

jay_shark · #7 10-09-2007, 09:01 AM

I also find this very disrespectful since I'm one of the first players to post regularly in the heads up forum when it opened . I've had many players tell me how helpful I've been in both this forum and in other poker forums .

If you have a person problem with me ( I know you do ) then please talk to me in private .

carko3 · #8 10-09-2007, 09:08 AM

Settle down ladies, plenty of me to go around.

I think we need a third party here also, another reply would be greatly appreciated.

hra146 · #9 10-09-2007, 09:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Settle down ladies, plenty of me to go around.

I think we need a third party here also, another reply would be greatly appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, I guess I do want to apologize though. I should have made use of the PM function here.

People_Mover · #10 10-09-2007, 09:34 AM

I make it 40.00 on the turn and the rest on the river, but as played, I'm shoving the river all day. I think you did just fine as long as you shoved the river [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]