Betting out of turn, new dealers and please keep your pants on! tl:dr

[rubixxcube]

Ruling question and a funny story.

This is from a satellite at the borgata last weekend. I play at the borgata all the time and 95% of the time dealers,floor etc... are pretty good. But all of the following happened at my table.

For those that don't know, at the borgata, in a tournament, you must be in your seat before the button gets his last card or your hand is dead. I think this is a little strict but its the rule.

First hand a guy is handing his slip to the dealer and not quite in his seat when the last card is dealt. Most don't care but 1 Nit says to the dealer the his hand is dead since he wasn't seated. Dealer just shrugs. Player says it again, dealer says he never heard of it, player and dealer stare at each other for a few seconds and then dealer mucks hand from late player.

Next dealer. I raise UTG with AK, Button, SB and BB all call. Flop comes J high and it checks around. Turn is a K, SB checks and dealer burns and puts the river card out. I say to the dealer, "what if some of us wanted to bet the turn?" She says "oops" and just puts the river card back on top of the deck. I look at her and say "Seriously" and explain to her the correct procedure of reshuffling the stub, allowing us to bet and then not burning and placing a new river card if turn action occurs and is called.

Isn't that like the standard dealer training.

Little while later UTG(65 year old man) raises, folds around to MP2 and the following conversation occurs:

MP2:sir are you wearing white shorts?
UTG:What the hell kind of question is that?
MP2: are you wearing white shorts?
UTG: gets up, walks over to MP2, unbuttons his pants, pulls them down a little and shows him his tighty whities and says "see for yourself what i am wearing".
MP2: i was referring to your pants not your underpants. I was at the last table and somebody said a guy with white shorts was raising very wildly and wanted to know if it was you.


Lastly a ruling question.

4 people to the flop. After the flop the button bets 300 out of turn. The dealer looks at the next player and says its on him. I remark that the button bet ahead of 4 people and the bet needs to be pulled back. It gets checked around to the button, well now the button wants to check.

Question: Is the button obligated to his bet? What if someone else bets more? less?

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
I look at her and say "Seriously" and explain to her the correct procedure of reshuffling the stub, allowing us to bet and then not burning and placing a new river card if turn action occurs and is called.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually this is not standard procedure. Standard dealer procedure here is to call the floor.

[IggyWH]

Reading stories like this make me wonder where the hell they get some dealers from. I mean, to be honest, I don't know what the correct procedure is, but I expect a dealer to know.

I guess that's why when I feel a dealer is doing a good job and has full control of the table like he/she is supposed to, I tip them a lot more.

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I look at her and say "Seriously" and explain to her the correct procedure of reshuffling the stub, allowing us to bet and then not burning and placing a new river card if turn action occurs and is called.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually this is not standard procedure. Standard dealer procedure here is to call the floor.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Standard procedure should be to call the floor first. Dealers should not be doing this on their own.

Standard procedure for the floor should be to have the betting round completed and then have the card shuffled back into the stub and a new river dealt. Correct?

[rubixxcube]

my bad i shortened it, i told her the procedure then the floor was subsequently called over and told her the correct procedure etc....

[krainec]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I look at her and say "Seriously" and explain to her the correct procedure of reshuffling the stub, allowing us to bet and then not burning and placing a new river card if turn action occurs and is called.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually this is not standard procedure. Standard dealer procedure here is to call the floor.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Standard procedure should be to call the floor first. Dealers should not be doing this on their own.

Standard procedure for the floor should be to have the betting round completed and then have the card shuffled back into the stub and a new river dealt. Correct?

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

[AngusThermopyle]

1. Accidents happen.
2. A competent, well trained dealer should not have to call the Floor.
a. Tell the table he just made a mistake
b. Explain the procedure that will follow
c. If someone complains, then call Floor

In the San Jose cardrooms, the players and the dealers know the routine after BATTS (Burn And Turn Too Soon). To wait for a Floor to show up is not alway necessary. YMMV.

[Photoc]

[ QUOTE ]

Lastly a ruling question.

4 people to the flop. After the flop the button bets 300 out of turn. The dealer looks at the next player and says its on him. I remark that the button bet ahead of 4 people and the bet needs to be pulled back. It gets checked around to the button, well now the button wants to check.

Question: Is the button obligated to his bet? What if someone else bets more? less?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on the house. Some places are using "action out of turn is never binding" which shouldn't be the case.

Most use "action out of turn may be binding unless there is equal or greater action in front of it. Checking out of turn will result in a check or call only, the player loses the option to bet or raise."

[eastcoaster]

Playing at the Taj about a month or so ago, dealer screwed up post flop. He burned/turned the turn too quickly before eveyrone had a chance to act. He just assumed everyone had checked because it was a low board and there was a raise preflop. Before anyone could say anything, he assumed everyone had checked the the turn, too, and was about to burn/turn the river when quite a few of us stopped him and pointed out that he was not giving the players enough time to act. He shrugs his shoulders and says, "okay, what do you want me to do here?" rather seriously...and just about everyone at the table, in the hand and not, said at the same time, "YOUR JOB PROPERLY!"

[TMTTR]

[ QUOTE ]
1. Accidents happen.
2. A competent, well trained dealer should not have to call the Floor.
a. Tell the table he just made a mistake
b. Explain the procedure that will follow
c. If someone complains, then call Floor

In the San Jose cardrooms, the players and the dealers know the routine after BATTS (Burn And Turn Too Soon). To wait for a Floor to show up is not alway necessary. YMMV.

[/ QUOTE ]

That may be how it is done in some places (without floor supervision), but if I am not a regular (and particularly if I am playing with regulars), I want the floor to be present. In several places where I have played (casinos and other poker rooms), this cannot be done without the floor being asked first -- and I think that is best for the integrity of the game.