Introduction & playing a monster OOP 1/2

[bram]

Hey all a bit of background about myself - Playing online poker for about 8 months now, started at NL25 and have played as high as NL400 with the right bankroll. I generally play 3-4 tables but will bump this up to 6 once I get a new set up. Recently I cashed out half my roll to start a savings account so I'm back to NL200. I play on the smaller sites because I like to have notes on the players that I am up against and I find the smaller sites have less grinders and more idiots. I am currently playing on CD Poker and Pacific Poker.

Anyways the hand - My table image is pretty tight and agressive, raising a heap from position but hadn't really shown any hands down so far.
The villian is one of the few multitablers on pacific, he seems ok but I had noted that he will call river bets when he only has a light holding. An annoying thing about pacific is that the losing show down hand can be mucked, stopping you from seeing what villian held. Sorry about the format, Pacific isn't compatable with converters [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

$1/$2 Blinds No Limit Hold'em - *** 07 13 23:14:38 2006
Table Gran Habano (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 5: Cpac23 ( $425.75 )
<font color="red"> Seat 6: Arivert ( $181.75 ) </font> &lt;--villian
Seat 7: AndMor ( $200 )
<font color="red"> Seat 9: Bram22 ( $181.05 ) </font> &lt;-- Me
AndMor posts small blind [$1].
bram22 posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to bram22 [ Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ]
Cpac23 calls [$2].
Arivert calls [$2].
AndMor calls [$1].
bram22 raises [$10]
Cpac23 folds.
Arivert calls [$10]
AndMor folds.
<font color="red"> POT SIZE $28 </font>
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ]
bram22 checks.
Arivert bets [$7].
bram22 calls [$7].
<font color="red"> POT SIZE $42 </font>
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ]
bram22 bets [$12].
Arivert calls [$12].
<font color="red"> POT SIZE $68 </font>
** Dealing River ** [ Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ]
bram22 bets [$35].
Arivert calls [$35].
** Summary **
bram22 shows [ Qc Qd ].
Arivert mucks.
<font color="red"> bram22 collected [$132]. </font>

Preflop was standard I think with that many limpers and playing QQ OOP.

Flop - so I hit the nuts on a dry dry board, thought I would check to see what villian would do, he bet under 1/4 pot which didn't really tell me anything about what he held, I was worried that a reraise would make him fold as a c/r from me when I was the preflop raiser shows heaps of strength.

Turn puts a backdoor flush draw out there but that is pretty unlikely, I bet under a 1/3rd of the pot trying to get some value out of this hand, villian took a long time but called, here I was putting him on a hand like 77-99 or QJs or even a horribly played AA,KK.

River I hit quads, which knocks out him playing a pair of queens, I bet out $35 into a $60 pot hoping he still thinks I am bluffing or am on an underpair, again he thinks for a while before calling.

Please give me suggestions on how to get more value out of hands like these where I want to get value out of the hand but don't want to push out the villian. I really suck at this when playing OOP, I'm thinking leading the flop for a small c-bet would have been better. Tear my play apart and again sorry about the format,

Thanks, James

[thedustbustr]

just value bet your hand! sometimes they call, sometimes they fold. if you're worried about pushing him out, check the turn. if he calls you light, bet the river hard.

[jkamowitz]

You left a lot of money on the table here, your line is pretty strong and your opponent is pretty bad, you could've gotten more.

[holdindanizzuts]

Your play was very sound here since the board offered really no potential for your opponent except maybe a nasty straight draw, so checking the flop is the best play. I think its a mircle he called your 35 on the river...if he had a low straight he would have raised you on the end. At best you could have got a few more dollars on the turn but the river was a solid bet.

[aejones]

The problem with "slowplaying" the flop is that you're oop, which puts pressure on you to lead the turn. I think you need to lead the flop so you don't give away too many free cards. If you do check, you need to c/r the flop to at least 20 (if you want to "sucker him in", I guess, but I'll usually overbet to look weak). Anyways, that's the problem with "slowplaying," a scary turn like that comes up and you suddenly feel the need to protect your hand. Against anyone with any hand reading ability, it's a fairly strong tell. The turn is pretty weak, with 12 he can successfully call with just about any draw- or float and bluff when four to a straight comes out.

[Blizzardbaum]

He's going to put you on relative strength anyway based on your preflop raise. Leading out for the pot or 3/4 the pot would be perceived as a weaker play than c/r here, and it helps to build a pot that sets up larger bets later on.

There was a really good thread yesterday on pot control in MSNL which you might want to check out. One thing you should always consider when sizing your bets "optimally" is the EV of every bet size. For instance, if there is $100 in the pot on the river and you hold the nuts with a $200 stack and you are considering three bet sizes: $100, $150, $200. You think Villain will call $100 100% of the time, $150 75% of the time, and $200 50% of the time. The EV of the $100 and $200 bet are identical at $100. The EV of the $150 bet is $112.5:

112.5=($150*3 + $0*1)/4

So, the $150 bet is the optimal play. Obviously, the math is simplified here and you'll never know the exact % of times you'll get called based on the size of your bets, but having a general idea of this concept should stop you from worrying about "pushing out" the villain. You don't want to blow people off hands when you think you are way ahead, but you should realize that you are losing more value by underbetting/checking then you are by building a pot with 3/4psb or psb.

[Blizzardbaum]

[ QUOTE ]
Your play was very sound here since the board offered really no potential for your opponent except maybe a nasty straight draw, so checking the flop is the best play. I think its a mircle he called your 35 on the river...if he had a low straight he would have raised you on the end. At best you could have got a few more dollars on the turn but the river was a solid bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is terrible advice. This is a situation where Villain either hit or he didn't. If he didn't hit, he's shutting down. If he did hit, we're losing a lot of value by betting so little.

[Praetor]

Just Play it like you would AA, KK, AQ etc..you want money in the pot when you have the nuts

[Nielsio]

You could half-pot the flop, making it look like a missed c-bet. Then you check the turn. And when the river comes, you overbet it, trying to represent a bluff on the Q and he might call with 99.

PS Villain plays aweful and is certainly not 'ok'.