isolating shortstack with 10 10, standard right?

[kurtkatt]

well maybe u r right though, cause btn said he had qq and sb had jj so i was crushed (in this case). but anyway i´d do it again and again. just don´t like to fold hands in my upper raising range...lol.

but two calls don´t really scare me, that usually tell me they got hands they wanna see a flop with against a hopefully strong ep raiser, not a monster.

hm, maybe i shoulda pointed out this was 6max?
which makes it an even easier "i´m playing this situation, right?"

[Teetster]

[ QUOTE ]
probably want to push more if you want to go for the iso play, like all-in

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I agree. Push all in now, you in all likelyhood have the best hand.

You don't want to see a flop 4 handed w/ 10 10. Pretty much any overcard and you're dead and/or easily bluffed out.

[Teetster]

[ QUOTE ]
Well perhaps it has something to do with my recent 1000BB downswing but I cant see why pushing is better.

- If someone calls your push/reraise you're 99% beat.

- If someone overcall your call you're probably beat. And if you're not you can play some poker and decide whether you get it allin on the flop or not.

- If someone reraise your call you're 99% beat and can get out.

*Edit* If you got him to lay down QQ, well done. I sure would have come over the top of you w QQ+

[/ QUOTE ]


Precisely. He has fold equity here if he pushes all in.

He's repping the a huge pair AA / KK by re-raising all in. AK/AQ/Axs/JJ/smaller pair hands are most likely not going to call the all in. They aren't pot committed, they only have a few mucks in the pot so far.

Yes, in all likelyhood AA/KK/QQ will call. So what, how often are they out there? Even if its 40% of the time, fine. You've got 60% FE and you'll still win 1/5 of the times when you are dominated.

[kurtkatt]

yes i agree basically. im gonna play it and i want to be h-up. standard is to push, and im doing that, with any hand (like it doesnt matter if its aa or 10 10 here) almost always. and my first question was if this is as standard as i thought it was.

second q is if the raise "can" be better? this time i got flamed a lot for repping aa kk so btn folded qq. ofcourse i didnt have any read or so, just lucky he was one of those thats folded a better hand with the raise and obv i don´t know if he woulda called a push instead. but the idea isnt all off the chart no?

what do u think about this?

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
this time i got flamed a lot for repping aa kk so btn folded qq.

[/ QUOTE ]

I found this funny. The QQ guy expected you to do what? Turn your cards over so he could make the correct decision?

[kurtkatt]

(*Edit* If you got him to lay down QQ, well done. I sure would have come over the top of you w QQ+)

come over the top of the raise but not calling push? cause that really what it boils down to. im not folding (if im pushing i really can´t even misclikc fold ...) anytime even if he comes over the top of the 60 raise.

All that matters is what my range is perceived for the raise vs the push, probably not very much difference and a bit FPS. but anyway, its out there....

[Teetster]

[ QUOTE ]
yes i agree basically. im gonna play it and i want to be h-up. standard is to push, and im doing that, with any hand (like it doesnt matter if its aa or 10 10 here) almost always. and my first question was if this is as standard as i thought it was.

second q is if the raise "can" be better? this time i got flamed a lot for repping aa kk so btn folded qq. ofcourse i didnt have any read or so, just lucky he was one of those thats folded a better hand with the raise and obv i don´t know if he woulda called a push instead. but the idea isnt all off the chart no?

what do u think about this?

[/ QUOTE ]


I think the stacks would have to be a lot deeper for a raise to be better. Like 5-6x deeper. The raise to me would mean you would want callers. OK, well the only time you'd want callers and action 4-way would be if you spiked your set. In order to make it +EV to build a big 4 way pot with a raise would be if you could be sufficiently paid off when you flop a set of 10's and someone with QQ/KK/AA

Otherwise, if you miss the set or there are overcards on the flop, you made a big pot for someone else.

So, I'd say a push here is better and its not close. If you're all sitting with 1K+ stacks, a raise gets more attractive. At what point exactly I don't know.

[kurtkatt]

yeah i know, he was vey upset over folding the best hand in a big pot...

and then proceeded to stack me with his Ks vs my aces...sigh

[kurtkatt]

yeah i know if the raise was a potbuilder i agree, here i think i got the best hand, want it h-up vs sb, am raising to 60 with 70 behind when co and btn have invested 8 already, and a call is 1/3 of co stack and 1/2 of btn stack, so its the same thing as pushing they "should" (with the exception of the few who REALLY wanna see a flop) fold any hand they´re not prepared to felt with

[ronaldann]

[ QUOTE ]
well maybe u r right though, cause btn said he had qq and sb had jj so i was crushed (in this case). but anyway i´d do it again and again. just don´t like to fold hands in my upper raising range...lol.

but two calls don´t really scare me, that usually tell me they got hands they wanna see a flop with against a hopefully strong ep raiser, not a monster.

hm, maybe i shoulda pointed out this was 6max?
which makes it an even easier "i´m playing this situation, right?"

[/ QUOTE ]

Makes sense. Actually what scares me the most about this hand is not the 2 cold calls. It's that you raise, get 2 cold calls and THEN SB shoves? I know he's shortstacked but mustn't he be completely retarded to push w anything other than JJ+ in that spot?

I think I would call and hope for an overcall from AK/AQ or a lower PP. And then get it in if nothing sick flops.

That way you get more value preflop, with the added bonus of a way out if someone indeed RR behind you. I don't give the limpers credit for being capable of squeezing you out if you just call, a RR would simply mean AA/KK.