Harrington's "M"... still a relevant and good concept?

[PantsOnFire]

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Online tournies are almost all super fast structures when compared to the tournies Harrington uses as his examples in the books,so the blinds come round far quicker often increasing every orbit,so you need to be pushing far earlier than his zone concept states.

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I don't quite agree with this. I play in many online tourneys with 12 or 15 minute levels. Given the number of hands dealt per hour online, this translates to about 30-45 minute levels live. And even better, most sites now have "super stack" tourneys which often have at least 200BB to start.

[PantsOnFire]

The concept of your stack size related to the cost of an orbit will never be obsolete. That's nonsense.

However, it may be pointed out that deciding just how desparate you are can vary from situation to situation. Here, Arnold Snyder explains about his view of M: http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/...egy_True_M.htm

I find Snyder to be a slightly too desparate too early for my taste and a tad too aggressive (just read his book). My play falls somewhere between Harrington and Snyder and does depend quite a bit on the tourney structure but also how the others are playing.

I also believe Harrington is criticized more by the younger players of today who feel that loose/super aggressive is the best way to play in today's game (perhaps a macho/ego sort of thing?). In other words, I find a lot of it to be the younger set giving jabs at the tight old fogies who seem to never be in a pot.

[Mason Malmuth]

Here was Snyder's view of M before we pointed out a few flaws in his book. It's a direct quote from an email Snyder wrote to me dated July 5, 2006. And for everyone else this has been posted before.

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Actually, when I read Harrington II, I was amazed at how similar my chip strategy chapter was to much of his advice. My entire book was actually written by the end of 2004, but Cardoza was so late on getting two other manuscripts I'd sent him to press, that I never sent him the poker manuscript. I updated some of the material by adding in data from the 2005 WSOP, none of which was in the original manuscript. By that point, I had almost quit playing tournaments. Karen and I were doing so well online, that the money from these small buy-in tournaments seemed negligible. The comments I make on Harrington II in my book were really pasted in long after I had developed the strategy I was using. I really did devise the whole thing starting from Sklansky's "System."

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MM

[Infidelone]

P.158 Harrington on hold-em ..playing styles in the Endgame.
3/4 th of the way down the page

" Just like there are no atheists in foxholes." What.???

There are atheists in foxholes all over the world at this very minutes. I am sick of all the christian slander and misrepresentation of the contributions of atheists'.
It really hurt me that somone I admired as a great poker player would disrespect a group of americans who have and do give their lives fighting for this country everyday.
Dan...I feel betrayed that I contributed to your income by buying your books.

Atheists are the new minority, we aren't going to be slandered and we are not going to make believe that there is anything praise worthy in believeing in talking snakes or a sun that goes backward in the sky.

[pernicus53]

Yes, atheists get a lot of poor treatment, but I'd take Harrington's cliche with a grain of salt.

[pernicus53]

[ QUOTE ]
P.158 Harrington on hold-em ..playing styles in the Endgame.
3/4 th of the way down the page

" Just like there are no atheists in foxholes." What.???

There are atheists in foxholes all over the world at this very minutes. I am sick of all the christian slander and misrepresentation of the contributions of atheists'.
It really hurt me that somone I admired as a great poker player would disrespect a group of americans who have and do give their lives fighting for this country everyday.
Dan...I feel betrayed that I contributed to your income by buying your books.

Atheists are the new minority, we aren't going to be slandered and we are not going to make believe that there is anything praise worthy in believeing in talking snakes or a sun that goes backward in the sky.

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Also, you're not understanding the meaning of the adage. It means that once you get into a foxhole, you can't believe in the absence of a God--the fear of death scares a belief into you. I find that idea insulting and stupid, but again, apart from his knowledge of poker, I don't see Harrington as one of the world's great thinkers.