AKs vs. Maniacs

Newbie236 · #1 07-06-2007, 02:49 PM

I'm a Newbie to the forums and enjoying the analysis. When reviewing hand histories to try to stop some of my numerous leaks, I struggle with hands that seemed unfoldable and wonder if its the rub of the game or if I should be able to get away from hands and save bets more often. I'd love to hear your opinions on the following...

$5/$10 online 6-max table. As loose as I've seen with 3 players firing chips with both fists. The guy to my left cold called 2 bets on the turn with 4th pair. The amazing thing was that he was ahead because the bettor had an "underpair" to the board and the raiser to my right had "air". You get the picture.

Ultimate Bet 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Newbie is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO raises, 1 fold, SB calls, Newbie 3-bets, CO calls, SB calls.

Flop: (9 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Newbie bets, CO raises, SB folds, Newbie 3-bets, CO caps, Newbie calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Newbie bets, CO raises...

When your opponent is as likely to have A2 as KJ as QQ as QJ, am I supposed to get away from a hand like this? How good of a holding do you need to engage a maniac?

StrictlyStrategy · #2 07-06-2007, 03:36 PM

I'd 3bet the turn and call down after that.

Maliant · #3 07-06-2007, 04:02 PM

Pretty much same line but I'd check/raise turn here and call down if 3-bet.

James. · #4 07-06-2007, 04:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Pretty much same line but I'd check/raise turn here and call down if 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't like a turn c/r. a decent portion of the time strong draws will cap the flop when we 3bet so they can take a free card.

KitCloudkicker · #5 07-06-2007, 04:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'd 3bet the turn and call down after that.

[/ QUOTE ]

one too many, hero is only realistically ahead of AT after the turn raise action.

jstill · #6 07-06-2007, 05:01 PM

Calldown from here

the thought of "getting away" from ur hand at any point is pretty ridiculous vs any type of player let alone a maniac

also dont assume a maniac is as likely here to have QQ or A2 as QJ or TT, its just not true at all. If u really didnt have to fear him capping the flop with like Qx Ax or Jx of diamonds or some other fd AND taking a freecard with that AJ AQ or some worse TP hand(ie u hadnt seen him 3bet or cap for freecards, or if he did 3bet a draw or a weak made hand hed always bet it on the turn UI) u can just ck calldown from the flop cap, QJ is a ton of combos. If a freecard is highly likely for this villain with many holdings bet calldown from the turn is fine.

edit: to add folding the turn is -EV if u were even considering that OP, u have 4 outs to basically the nuts even if u are behind TT or QJ and the pot is huge at this point laying over 10:1 on a call.

Harv72b · #7 07-06-2007, 05:51 PM

Against a reasonable opponent I call down after the turn raise. Against a maniac/bad lag, I 3bet the turn & check/call the river UI if he caps it.

Maliant · #8 07-06-2007, 05:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]

i don't like a turn c/r. a decent portion of the time strong draws will cap the flop when we 3bet so they can take a free card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well then we know even more so where we are at, i like this more than bet/3-betting because we are representing an even bigger hand than we have and might be getting raped here.

JJH3984 · #9 07-06-2007, 08:59 PM

"knowing where we are at" has little value if our opponent gets there on the cheap in a big pot.