AP Visit: I'm going to Costa Rica

[Resistance]

Bring back pics so the community can shop them! :P

[pineapple888]

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I'm a bit puzzled by this. You WANT AP to survive?

I've just spent a little time going through KGC's gaming regulations, I can't imagine a more serious breach of the rules than to a) allow or fail to stop insider cheating and b) fail to keep proper gaming records. If those two offences don't lead to revocation of AP's licence then what does a girl have to do to get revoked around here?

Seriously, I can't see that your going to Costa Rica will achieve anything other than making you their PR agent and giving the company a better chance of surviving. I mean, really, why do you think they invited you?

If AP does survive, it basically means that the gaming commission have no teeth and this kind of thing can and will happen again.

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While I certainly can't speak for everyone, I think this represents the way a lot of people here feel. I mean, really, this makes 100% sense, doesn't it?

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Jan, why don't you post 150 more times making your position clear. What do you really think here?

[gobbomom]

OT kinda: Pokernews took their AP ad. down.

[timmay28]

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We haven't even started a campaign to let fish know what's going on - and many of them would go elsewhere if they were told.

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I'd like to contribute to this. Going to class now, but the teacher will talk to himself the entire time so I'll be thinking about how to go about this effectively.

Only thing I can think of off the top of my head is for a number of us to create playmoney accounts at AP and take a couple minutes each day to spam the low stakes rooms with a brief message and link to the cheating video @ youtube.

[clingfree]

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Guys, if you want to do something constructive, start lobbying the Kahnawake gaming commission. They are in charge of oversight, they are supposed to have guys who go in and audit this stuff, were they all asleep or something?!

Why have they not already suspended AP's licence given that AP now have a bad reputation in the business?! Attack them, I say, attack!

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Kahnawake

I dropped them an email. Perhaps posting your message in the poker legislation forum is in order here to encourage others to just write something, anything, to them. Only good can come from more people complaining to them, regardless of whether your stance is that they should sink or swim.

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Perhaps I'm just missing something, but when you go to KGC link above and click on the permit holders tab it does not show AP in the list of permit holders.

[Specialwon]

I am just off to my weekly home game, so I'll tell all my fishy friends right before I gut them all.

[pygmyhipo]

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But, if AP has no gaming licence, I don't really see how it can continue to trade. Nobody would do business with them. They could try to get accreditation with another authority, maybe in Malta, and maybe that would be a good outcome because Kahhawake clearly do not have their act together.


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I'm not sure what you mean by "trade". They are a private business. Nobody requires them to have any accreditation or regulation at all, other than the market of players. There are plenty of gambling sites that do just fine without a KGC seal.

KGC has proven repeatedly that its regulatory "oversight" is a sham and its licensing seal is a rubberstamp.

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Why have they not already suspended AP's licence given that AP now have a bad reputation in the business?! Attack them, I say, attack!

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I agree that threatening the KGC brand might work. Here are some ideas for doing this in another post.

-pyg

[N 82 50 24]

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I'm a bit puzzled by this. You WANT AP to survive?

I've just spent a little time going through KGC's gaming regulations, I can't imagine a more serious breach of the rules than to a) allow or fail to stop insider cheating and b) fail to keep proper gaming records. If those two offences don't lead to revocation of AP's licence then what does a girl have to do to get revoked around here?

Seriously, I can't see that your going to Costa Rica will achieve anything other than making you their PR agent and giving the company a better chance of surviving. I mean, really, why do you think they invited you?

If AP does survive, it basically means that the gaming commission have no teeth and this kind of thing can and will happen again.

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While I certainly can't speak for everyone, I think this represents the way a lot of people here feel. I mean, really, this makes 100% sense, doesn't it?

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I believe what he actually said was that he doubts AP will go down in flames, so if they are going to survive, he would like to make sure that they are the best they can be going forward.

The KGC has very little teeth. If they revoke AP's license, it will not put AP out of business.

This kind of thing can and may happen again.

Obviously, there are many things that could be learned on the trip, as previously explained in these never ending threads. There's no downside to a couple of the guys going down there.

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Yea. I'm pretty sure no one in the industry who can really do something about WILL do something about it. And if the players themselves largely don't care, then how the hell is a site supposed to be punished? The answer is that it's pretty much impossible to do so without a large number of people consistently going after a site and even if you do that, lots of players would still ignore you and the fish probably don't even care. 2p2 might help with something like that, but I am not convinced it would actually happen.

Anyway, that's just how I feel.

[Jingleheimer]

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I'm pretty sure no one in the industry who can really do something about WILL do something about it.

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Nat-
Don't be so pessimistic!

Mason and the powers that be at 2+2 are active on this issue, and when appropriate you'll hear from them.

[timmay28]

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Yea. I'm pretty sure no one in the industry who can really do something about WILL do something about it. And if the players themselves largely don't care, then how the hell is a site supposed to be punished? The answer is that it's pretty much impossible to do so without a large number of people consistently going after a site and even if you do that, lots of players would still ignore you and the fish probably don't even care. 2p2 might help with something like that, but I am not convinced it would actually happen.

Anyway, that's just how I feel.

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Not sure whether your current plan to just reform the company is best, as I don't know how likely it is that all of the responsible persons are accounted for, and if they're fired - will they actually stay fired, or will they have roundabout methods of staying aboard. Have my doubts, but it might work.

However,

Why are we so effing quick to assume the fish won't care after learning about this?

What is it about Absolute that is any more compelling versus the million other gambling sites?

AP will have a hard time bringing in new fish due to information being spread on all the forums, so while the numbers don't speak of an immediate loss, they'll feel it slowly but surely with every current fish that goes broke and decides "well, might as well try a different, more ethical site - maybe then I can win".

AP isn't anything special in itself, it isn't monopolistic like Wal-Mart or Microcrap. After the majority of the fish leave - the remaining 2+2'ers with zero self respect also leave.

This attitude that "they'll never go down so it isn't worth fighting them" is short-sighted. Any loss of business that results from backlash on our part will only increase the chances that other sites at least think twice about trying funny business in the future - it is definitely worthwhile to make a hearty attempt now while this story still has some legs.

Call me crazy, but I really think AP can lose serious business if just a few of us put our minds to it. The results won't be immediate, but they'll get there. The key is to keep pushing them down the slippery slope they've created.