Updated Cliff Notes On Absolute Poker Scandal (18th October)

[Jingleheimer]

Some things I'm still not clear on:

The HH with all hole cards shown. That was key in this case, but files like that have been sent before. Was this file sent with an intention to whistle-blow? If this is the same kind of thing that has been sent out before, I am a bit unclear on that. If this file was what got the employee who sent it fired, did that happen previously with the other file(s) sent, is it just because the fallout has been so huge, has the employee been involved in other ways with this case, or were there specific instructions not to send anything out?

It seems from some cryptic comments from Adanthar that there is/was inside info coming from AP aside from the file. Is there more information coming or unposted?

One thing I'm having trouble with here is that if this is an instance of a rogue ex-employee or even a bad current employee, it seems that the best thing for the company to do is to publicly state that this guy did x y and z bad things and they are going to go after him, provide restitution to affected players, and list the various actions they will take to ensure that this never happens again. This seems to be a pretty obvious thing to do. The fact that they aren't doing that makes me wonder what else there is that we don't know (maybe the management is trying to find this info out first?) that prevents them from doing this, like maybe everyone in the organization taking part.

But it is clear that all sites have some capability somewhere to view hole cards, since WCOOP final tables with all hole cards shown can be watched on YouTube. So this ability is not shocking and I don't know why they'd cover it up or be more forthright about it.

One other thing. The Oscar133 tournaments- is that short list of the 2 wins the only tourneys this guy played or just the cashes?

[Dan Druff]

Sigh.

The whole Joe Norton thing reminds me of the one thing I forgot to mention from yesterday's "Paul from PR" call with AP:

Paul said something that sounded like "Joe Thorpe" (which must have actually been Joe Norton) when I asked who owned the site. When I asked him to spell it, he put me on hold and came back a few minutes later. He then gave me a company name as the owner of AP instead. When I asked how that suddenly changed, he gave me some BS that he was "incorrect" in first giving me the Joe name.

Instead of admitting that he accidentally leaked the name of the owner of the company that owns AP, he makes up some BS that he was "incorrect" in his first answer.

So tired of being lied to.

There's no way that this audit is going to be impartial. From what you guys are saying, Norton founded the Kawhanake Gaming Commission, and now owns AP. The auditor has some sort of close assosication with Kawahanake, which basically ensures a favorable outcome.

Unless they immediately change auditors and appoint a company that is truly impartial, we should 100% completely reject any conclusions that come from this audit.

[StoneColdTex]

We keep seeing in AP's denials and responses, that "users can's see other hole cards" or "our software doesn't send other hole cards" etc.

It seems that many of the descriptions, speculations here that this person with "superuser" capabilities has a "client" that can see hole cards.

While I believe that hole cards have been seen, I don't think it is through the client software. If AP (I don't play there) updates their client as often as other sites then this modified superuser client would need to be modified every time there is an update. Also the assumption is that servers DON'T send the hole cards of other players period so someone cant hack the network stream.

My guess is that user #363 was observing from a normal account, with a normal client. But he was somehow telneted in, or otherwise connected to the server watching realtime logging of hole cards. And he was sitting on a speaker phone with POTRIPPER and telling him what to do.

I dont think I have seen this spelled out, although I am sure many are thinking along these same lines.

I think it is important to try to be clear on how it might have been done, because the typical responses from AP are that no user can see other hole cards. And this is likely 100% true. It is also 100% irrelevant, if the cheating mechanism is via a server connection vs via a "special" client. I would love to see the next folks that have some audience or discussion with AP call BS on them next time they pursure this line of defense.

Just my .02

[g-p]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless they immediately change auditors and appoint a company that is truly impartial, we should 100% completely reject any conclusions that come from this audit.

[/ QUOTE ]
even if they confirm everything everyone has come up???

thats not 100%! !

[suzzer99]

Unless the new, true owners actually do want to get to the bottom of it. Or they strategize that it's the best way to save the site.

[Dan Druff]

Also, I want to apologize for a wrong detail. It doesn't change much, but it needs to be corrected for accuracy's sake.

There is no account REYMNALDO that was involved in the chip-dumping. Somehow my memory of the name was REYMNALDO. The actual name is ROMNALDO (which obviously is quite similar).

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...ue#Post12124978

The rest of everything I posted about the chip-dumping is true. ROMNALDO did indeed receive over 300k in dumped chips from DOUBLEDRAG.

Furthermore, it has been reported to me that STEAMROLLER also dumped chips to SUPERCARDM55. A long-time AP player PM'd me to tell me that he clearly remembers witnessing SUPERCARDM55 and STEAMROLLER two-tabling 200-400 heads-up, and SUPERCARDM55 basically winning every hand.

[Cruzincat]

The best we can hope for is that AP does not have the techical personnel capable of figuring out what happened, and knowing that something is wrong, they are calling in more knowledgable people from Gaming Associates. Maybe they have finally come to the conclusion that they need to come clean, however it would still be much better if they would use a true outside auditing firm.

[suzzer99]

[ QUOTE ]
We keep seeing in AP's denials and responses, that "users can's see other hole cards" or "our software doesn't send other hole cards" etc.

It seems that many of the descriptions, speculations here that this person with "superuser" capabilities has a "client" that can see hole cards.

While I believe that hole cards have been seen, I don't think it is through the client software. If AP (I don't play there) updates their client as often as other sites then this modified superuser client would need to be modified every time there is an update. Also the assumption is that servers DON'T send the hole cards of other players period so someone cant hack the network stream.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is actually a really good point which I haven't heard considered yet. You would think a normal Absolute client would be hard-programmed to only accept and show one set of hole cards. This would be an extra security feature. Is there anyway to decompile the Absolute client and check out the source?

Which would make it likely that in concert with his superuser status, the cheater was using some hacked version of the client, or maybe just a text reader that emulates a client but can accept everyone's hole cards. Not that it makes a big difference either way.

This could also explain why this thing exploded right after the update. Someone on the inside could have pushed out a new client that circumvents the security feature to make sure the client only shows only one set of hole cards.

To me tailing the HH files doesn't seem that likely anymore. As it appears that a super-user needs to be logged on and actively observing the table in question for the whole scheme to work.

[ibluffoldladies]

Dan,

Thank you for posting that. Everybody needs to understand that their favorite online poker room is licensed by a fraudulent commission, and the only regulation these sites have come from the people who are financially invested in them. You can figure the rest out by yourself.

[mntbikr15]

More on the legitamacy of Tropical Fish plz