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  #1  
Old 11-01-2007, 08:50 AM
kolotoure kolotoure is offline
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Default Aces in 3-bet pot

Haven't seen villain do anything of note

Poker Stars
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
4 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (4 players) Kolo is UTG with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Kolo raises to $0.85</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $2.65</font>, Kolo calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($5.4, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $5.15</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Kolo raises to $20.6</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises all-in $31.3</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Kolo calls all-in $10.7</font>.
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  #2  
Old 11-01-2007, 09:07 AM
TheRempel TheRempel is offline
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Default Re: Aces in 3-bet pot

Reraise preflop.
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  #3  
Old 11-01-2007, 09:11 AM
wazz wazz is offline
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Default Re: Aces in 3-bet pot

I don't like it so much, but I'm not sure if there's any other alternative. If you're happy to get it all-in on boards like this I think I sometimes 4-bet preflop but again that's not great, even though you have position. The issue here is that his range is polarized more towards made hands that have you beat, considering he's 3-bet you pf oop, and he has an ace a good amount of the time and 3 large cards. Villain can occasionally be making a pure bluff or semibluffing with a naked weak flush draw, and in this case you either get a fold and win the pot as it stands or get him to gamble, probably without odds. Generally, though, he's either got you beat, he's got a good draw or a little of both, so you're never crushing, behind alot and crushed occasionally. I think there's an argument for just folding to his flop pot-sized bet purely because you're readless, the board's co-ordinated and it's gonna cost you $31 to fight over a $11 pot where there's a good chance you're already behind. In fact, I think this is an overriding argument and you should fold flop and be happy about it. Occasionally you look like a genius when villain calls, misses and you scoop, but it's just too easy to take you to valuetown here. He probably turns up with KK/TT/KTQJ here about 5% of the time give or take a sh*tload. What then, eh?
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  #4  
Old 11-01-2007, 09:15 AM
kolotoure kolotoure is offline
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Default Re: Aces in 3-bet pot

[ QUOTE ]
Reraise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

doesn't this allow him to play almosy perfect against us?
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  #5  
Old 11-01-2007, 11:29 AM
jipster jipster is offline
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Default Re: Aces in 3-bet pot

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like it so much, but I'm not sure if there's any other alternative. If you're happy to get it all-in on boards like this I think I sometimes 4-bet preflop but again that's not great, even though you have position. The issue here is that his range is polarized more towards made hands that have you beat, considering he's 3-bet you pf oop, and he has an ace a good amount of the time and 3 large cards. Villain can occasionally be making a pure bluff or semibluffing with a naked weak flush draw, and in this case you either get a fold and win the pot as it stands or get him to gamble, probably without odds. Generally, though, he's either got you beat, he's got a good draw or a little of both, so you're never crushing, behind alot and crushed occasionally. I think there's an argument for just folding to his flop pot-sized bet purely because you're readless, the board's co-ordinated and it's gonna cost you $31 to fight over a $11 pot where there's a good chance you're already behind. In fact, I think this is an overriding argument and you should fold flop and be happy about it. Occasionally you look like a genius when villain calls, misses and you scoop, but it's just too easy to take you to valuetown here. He probably turns up with KK/TT/KTQJ here about 5% of the time give or take a sh*tload. What then, eh?

[/ QUOTE ]

For one buy in wazz; i disagree; firstly against kqjt no diamonds you are 45% to win; secondly you are never crushed as you have the nut flush draw.

And thirdly, but by no means most importantly; Wazz is never folding here!!!!
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  #6  
Old 11-01-2007, 04:59 PM
wazz wazz is offline
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Default Re: Aces in 3-bet pot

whoah, wtf, i made that reply on the back of a 13 hour (losing) live session and was very stoned, I completely missed the nut flush draw. Standard.
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  #7  
Old 11-02-2007, 03:44 AM
RoundTower RoundTower is offline
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Location: pushing YOU off the second nuts
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Default Re: Aces in 3-bet pot

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reraise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

doesn't this allow him to play almosy perfect against us?

[/ QUOTE ]
no, it allows us to play perfectly against him.
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  #8  
Old 11-02-2007, 04:52 AM
iggymcfly iggymcfly is offline
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Default Re: Aces in 3-bet pot

I'd 4-bet this the vast majority of the time and I think that with the stack sizes, it's probably the best move, but it's close enough that I can't really fault a flat-call. Obviously, we're getting it in on this kind of flop, but the tricky part of playing this passively is knowing which rag flops to get in on. If you flat-call PF and fold every time you don't get an ace or the NFD, that's too weak, but if you're getting it in every time, you're better off just 4-betting.

I think the only way you can get better long-term equity with the call is when you're not playing very many tables and you're against an opponent that you have a really good read on to the point that you're likely to get some kind of sense from a timing tell how they hit the flop or you know specifically what cards they're 3-betting range is weighted towards so that you can pick specific boards to get away from. For example, if they only 3-bet high cards, you could fold any board with two broadway cards that didn't hit you, but push over the top of a bet if the board comes low.
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  #9  
Old 11-02-2007, 05:17 AM
Grandezza Grandezza is offline
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Default Re: Aces in 3-bet pot

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reraise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

doesn't this allow him to play almosy perfect against us?

[/ QUOTE ]
no, it allows us to play perfectly against him.

[/ QUOTE ]

please explain..
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  #10  
Old 11-02-2007, 05:26 AM
OrrLives OrrLives is offline
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Default Re: Aces in 3-bet pot

Assuming you both had full stacks, I like a re-raise preflop here.

You can get around 1/3 of your stack in preflop, which means you will have one pot sized bet on the flop with probably the best hand. Go for it.
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