How Kenny Tran Rates Internet Players

[stephenNUTS]

[ QUOTE ]
I've played a good amount of high-stakes live poker. The majority of live players over-rate themselves because they're used to playing such ridiculously soft lineups (like the average 10-20 NL game online is way tougher than the 9-handed 25-50 to 100-200-400 games I've played). Now I don't have extensive history with the absolute best and I do believe that online players are probably likely to underrate how good certain players are at live NLHE and making reads.

Still, at the end of the day the majority of well-respected live players if you listen to them talk about what they were thinking during a hand, are so ridiculously incapable of critically analyzing hands that the thought of them being better than elite online players is absurd (here I'm mainly talking about the older generation. There are young players who play mainly live who I have a lot of respect for but I don't think Kenny would put in his top 20).

Long story short, give any elite online player a month of constant live NL experience and if they haven't killed themselves from boredom they'll be able to dominate most live pros. And then once they figure out all the reverse tells that will totally baffle live pros who assume no online player could ever do something so tricky, it's game over.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWF,

As a mostly LIVE player...I would tend to agree with you that IMO the "BEST"(and they are just a few) on-line players with the proper time period adjustments would do QUITE well in live cash game scenerio's over the long haul after adapting to to 9/10 handed FR games,slower play,less hands per hour,etc.

As to how much/often they win ...I would assume good ole' variance would be a big factor?

SF [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[LearnedfromTV]

[ QUOTE ]
i think there's some truth to what Kenny says, in the following sense: in your typical live 50-100 game, I think your typical live 50-100+ pros will have a higher EV than even some of the best high-limit online pros. at least, if EV in the games that regularly go is how you judge the "best" players, then i'd guess there's a good chance that no online player is in the top 20. however, that's a very different thing than saying those live pros would collectively be a favorite in a game against the best internet pros, even if the game were played live.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this a long way of saying the live pros crush live fish better than online pros would?

[kylephilly]

[ QUOTE ]
can't lay down hands? wasn't KT like the hero-call wizard of the WSOP?

[/ QUOTE ]

my first thought exactly

[pete fabrizio]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think there's some truth to what Kenny says, in the following sense: in your typical live 50-100 game, I think your typical live 50-100+ pros will have a higher EV than even some of the best high-limit online pros. at least, if EV in the games that regularly go is how you judge the "best" players, then i'd guess there's a good chance that no online player is in the top 20. however, that's a very different thing than saying those live pros would collectively be a favorite in a game against the best internet pros, even if the game were played live.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this a long way of saying the live pros crush live fish better than online pros would?

[/ QUOTE ]

pretty much.

[raptor517]

I have let the thread run a bit before offering more thoughts.. i think a few people definitely hit on something about being the 'best' involving more than pure poker ability. the ability to engage fish, keep everyone interested and having a good time, being able to actually get INTO games, etc. all of these things contribute to being the 'best' live players i suppose, and in that case, kenny tran might just be correct. he cant possibly be deluded enough to think that in terms of pure poker skill the live players have a huge edge. that would just be crazy talk.

also, to the people saying watching all internet players play live is like watching paint dry are just retarded. i think one of the most fun games every to watch would include me and durr making fun of all the live pros and offering countless prop bets. how could that not be fun to watch?? we definitely wouldnt be passing around sheets of paper while observers have no idea wtf is going on. anyways, David S if you read this, and those live pros have any interest of setting up a game, feel free to PM me most of us will be in vegas in early december for a couple weeks and something could definitely get set up.

[NNNNOOOOONAN]

[ QUOTE ]
I have let the thread run a bit before offering more thoughts.. i think a few people definitely hit on something about being the 'best' involving more than pure poker ability. the ability to engage fish, keep everyone interested and having a good time, being able to actually get INTO games, etc. all of these things contribute to being the 'best' live players i suppose, and in that case, kenny tran might just be correct. he cant possibly be deluded enough to think that in terms of pure poker skill the live players have a huge edge. that would just be crazy talk.

also, to the people saying watching all internet players play live is like watching paint dry are just retarded. i think one of the most fun games every to watch would include me and durr making fun of all the live pros and offering countless prop bets. how could that not be fun to watch?? we definitely wouldnt be passing around sheets of paper while observers have no idea wtf is going on. anyways, David S if you read this, and those live pros have any interest of setting up a game, feel free to PM me most of us will be in vegas in early december for a couple weeks and something could definitely get set up.

[/ QUOTE ]

i'll videotape [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[Ansky]

agree w. raptor obviously.

i can think of about 1 live pro who crushes NL online (ivey). Just about every online player crushes live when they play.

[MrMore]

Kenny Tran says that full-course golfers are better at full-course golf than miniature-golfers? Shocking.

The mini-golfers counter by saying their gazillion rounds of mini-golf mean they've played more rounds of real golf than the real golfers? Also shocking.

The consensus of posters on an INTERNET forum think that INTERNET poker players are better than real poker players? Okay, I'll just go have a heart attack now.

[NNNNOOOOONAN]

[ QUOTE ]
Kenny Tran says that full-course golfers are better at full-course golf than miniature-golfers? Shocking.

The mini-golfers counter by saying their gazillion rounds of mini-golf mean they've played more rounds of real golf than the real golfers? Also shocking.

The consensus of posters on an INTERNET forum think that INTERNET poker players are better than real poker players? Okay, I'll just go have a heart attack now.

[/ QUOTE ]

ban.

seriously this isn't even close to what is being discussed.

[lamgabejambo]

[ QUOTE ]
I have let the thread run a bit before offering more thoughts.. i think a few people definitely hit on something about being the 'best' involving more than pure poker ability. the ability to engage fish, keep everyone interested and having a good time, being able to actually get INTO games, etc. all of these things contribute to being the 'best' live players i suppose, and in that case, kenny tran might just be correct. he cant possibly be deluded enough to think that in terms of pure poker skill the live players have a huge edge. that would just be crazy talk.

also, to the people saying watching all internet players play live is like watching paint dry are just retarded. i think one of the most fun games every to watch would include me and durr making fun of all the live pros and offering countless prop bets. how could that not be fun to watch?? we definitely wouldnt be passing around sheets of paper while observers have no idea wtf is going on. anyways, David S if you read this, and those live pros have any interest of setting up a game, feel free to PM me most of us will be in vegas in early december for a couple weeks and something could definitely get set up.

[/ QUOTE ]


I said "most" internet pros, obviously not everyone. It's all about being in the comfort zone, and you guys are more comfortable staring at the monitor to make money than someone like Kenny Tran and DN who has no problem engaging the whales to happily donate money to them because they're having fun. Kenny couldn't even speak english well when he came to America. What's the point of being the best when you have to play against the second best all the time online? We all saw on TV how the internet pros play on ESPN with Jordan Morgan and Alex Jacob in the USPC and JMAN on HSP, and I feel exactly like watching paint dry.