To m_the0ry, Justin A and others re: Brad1970's empathy.

[Subfallen]

(Disclaimer: the views expressed herein may not apply to ecumenical Catholics, Unitarians, conditionalist Evangelicals, and theosophists.)

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One of your family members commits an unforgivable sin, and goes to hell. How do you live in eternal bliss knowing that one of your loved ones will feel eternal pain and suffering.

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St. Thomas Aquinas: "In order that the bliss of the saints may be more delightful for them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, it is given to them to see perfectly the punishment of the damned." (Summa Theologiae, III, Supplementum, Q. 94, Art. 1. Emphasis mine.)

Tertullian, "Yes, and there are other sights: that last day of judgement, with its everlasting issues...when the world hoary with age, and all its many products, shall be consumed in great flame...What there excites my admiration? what my derision? Which sight gives me joy? which rouses me to exultation?---as I see so many illustrious monarchs...in fires more fierce than those with which in the days of their pride they raged against the followers of Christ. What world's wise men besides, the very philosophers, in fact, who taught their followers that God had no concern in aught that is sublunary, and were wont to assure them that either they had no souls, or that they would never return to the bodies which at death they had left, now covered with shame before the poor deluded ones, as one fire consumes them!...What quaestor or priest in his munificence will bestow on you the favour of seeing and exulting in such things as these?" (De Spectaculis from Arbesmann's The Fathers of the Church: A New Translation. Emphasis mine.)

Or did you forget that Dante placed above the gateway of his hell the inscription, "I too was created by eternal love?" What is human suffering in view of that---eternal love?---

[carlo]

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Disclaimer: the views expressed herein may not apply to ecumenical Catholics, Unitarians, conditionalist Evangelicals, and theosophists.)


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One of your family members commits an unforgivable sin, and goes to hell. How do you live in eternal bliss knowing that one of your loved ones will feel eternal pain and suffering.


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St. Thomas Aquinas: "In order that the bliss of the saints may be more delightful for them and that they may render more copious thanks to God for it, it is given to them to see perfectly the punishment of the damned." (Summa Theologiae, III, Supplementum, Q. 94, Art. 1. Emphasis mine.)

Tertullian, "Yes, and there are other sights: that last day of judgement, with its everlasting issues...when the world hoary with age, and all its many products, shall be consumed in great flame...What there excites my admiration? what my derision? Which sight gives me joy? which rouses me to exultation?---as I see so many illustrious monarchs...in fires more fierce than those with which in the days of their pride they raged against the followers of Christ. What world's wise men besides, the very philosophers, in fact, who taught their followers that God had no concern in aught that is sublunary, and were wont to assure them that either they had no souls, or that they would never return to the bodies which at death they had left, now covered with shame before the poor deluded ones, as one fire consumes them!...What quaestor or priest in his munificence will bestow on you the favour of seeing and exulting in such things as these?" (De Spectaculis from Arbesmann's The Fathers of the Church: A New Translation. Emphasis mine.)

Or did you forget that Dante placed above the gateway of his hell the inscription, "I too was created by eternal love?" What is human suffering in view of that---eternal love?---



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Whether the blessed rejoice in the punishment of the wicked?

Objection 1: It would seem that the blessed do not rejoice in the punishment of the wicked. For rejoicing in another's evil pertains to hatred. But there will be no hatred in the blessed. Therefore they will not rejoice in the unhappiness of the damned.

Objection 2: Further, the blessed in heaven will be in the highest degree conformed to God. Now God does not rejoice in our afflictions. Therefore neither will the blessed rejoice in the afflictions of the damned.

Objection 3: Further, that which is blameworthy in a wayfarer has no place whatever in a comprehensor. Now it is most reprehensible in a wayfarer to take pleasure in the pains of others, and most praiseworthy to grieve for them. Therefore the blessed nowise rejoice in the punishment of the damned.

On the contrary, It is written (Ps. 57:11): "The just shall rejoice when he shall see the revenge."

Further, it is written (Is. 56:24): "They shall satiate [*Douay: 'They shall be a loathsome sight to all flesh.'] the sight of all flesh." Now satiety denotes refreshment of the mind. Therefore the blessed will rejoice in the punishment of the wicked.

I answer that, A thing may be a matter of rejoicing in TWO WAYS. First directly, when one rejoices in a thing as such: and thus the saints WILL NOT REJOICE in the punishment of the wicked. Secondly, indirectly, by reason namely of something ANNEXED to it: and in this way the saints will rejoice in the punishment of the wicked, by CONSIDERING therein the order of Divine justice and their own deliverance, which will fill them with joy. And thus the Divine justice and their own deliverance will be the direct cause of the joy of the blessed: while the punishment of the damned will cause it indirectly.

Reply to Objection 1: To rejoice in another's evil as such belongs to hatred, but not to rejoice in another's evil by reason of something annexed to it. Thus a person sometimes rejoices in his own evil as when we rejoice in our own afflictions, as helping us to merit life: "My brethren, count it all joy when you shall fall into divers temptations" (James 1:2).

Reply to Objection 2: Although God rejoices not in punishments as such, He rejoices in them as being ordered by His justice.

Reply to Objection 3: It is not praiseworthy in a wayfarer to rejoice in another's afflictions as such: yet it is praiseworthy if he rejoice in them as having something annexed. However it is not the same with a wayfarer as with a comprehensor, because in a wayfarer the passions often forestall the judgment of reason, and yet sometimes such passions are praiseworthy, as indicating the good disposition of the mind, as in the case of shame pity and repentance for evil: whereas in a comprehensor there can be no passion but such as follows the judgment of reason.

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Aquinas is if anything, always intricate.So the Saints do not rejoice at the punishment of the wicked in the sense of the actual suffering but do rejoice at the realization of Divine Justice and at their own deliverance.

This is Q94 the 3rd article

[m_the0ry]

Seems to me like you need to talk amongst yourselves more before thinking of giving a response.