did i play this right or wrong?

[neismond]

first time poster, glad i found these forums [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

situation- poker tournament, 6 tables, early stages. everyone starts with 2000 chips, blinds 25/50, no antes. big blind is semi aggressive who has yet to win a hand, has been folding with a lot of nonverbal frustration and angst because others have bet/raised before him. i have won a few pots, currently sit around 3900 chips.

semi aggressive is big blind. 1st to act folds, 2nd to act raises to 150. she is conservative, solid player. 3rd folds, me next. i hold k-j off. i have a lot of chips, it is early, so i just call. 5th folds, dealer folds, small folds. big blind goes all in, total bet of 1050. he throws his chips in frustratingly, rolling his eyes (non verbal clues) and looks generally distraught. conservative player who raised considers calling, but folds.

here is my thought process-

i am considered at the tournament as ultra conservative, ultra tight. i have lots of chips, and it is early in tournament. about 6 hands earlier, i figured the first pair aggressive player got was going to go all in. i have him on a lower pair, so i have 2 over cards. i do not have him on a-high kicker, cause he is not the type who would go all in on no pair. i figure if i win, then i have a very good command at the table; if i lose, i am still ahead of where i started at. so i call.

he turns over 10-10, i turn over k-j off. he starts the harassment already, asking how i could possibly call with that. flop comes k-4-j, and he gets loud and livid. nothing happens on turn/river, so he angrily stands up and keeps on the verbal tirade. his final thing was "you are going to make someone at the table very happy if you keep playing like that".

now, as an ultra conservative player, i don't play k-j off much. and i know, obviously, i got lucky on the turn+. however...

was my thought process and decision making good, and i just got lucky? or was my thought process and decision making bad, and i just got lucky?

thanks all, and hope to continue to improve as a player [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

neismond

[Equal]

Oh man, cant wait to read the responses to this one.

[mute]

First call is very bad. Calling raises from solid players with KJo is generally a bad idea especially early.

The second call is ...um wow. Glad it worked out, though. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[neismond]

i started with 3900 chips going into that hand. at 150, i did not think i would be risking that many chips. which is why i called, even though she is conservative (btw she ended up holding 7-7).

if she called his all in, i would have folded immediately. but with her folding, i was the only one left to make a call. i knew i was gambling, since i put him on a lower pair (which put me behind going into the flop). but i was willing to risk my chip stack going from 3900 to 2850, since it still put me decently ahead and it was still early.

i am not a great poker player, i am really just beginning. i have been playing in tournaments for about 2 months now, but am just starting to learn about position bets, pot odds, etc. so i welcome any advice to this hand. i guess it seems like i am not valuing my chips enough, because i did not/don't think 150 call is that big of a deal... but it seems that is a really bad call.

neismond

[Skleice]

Your hand against

1) AK, AJ, KQ...dominated
2)AQ, A10 etc...dog
3)AA, KK, QQ, JJ....deep xxxx. Though, I doubt he would push with AA, KK, or QQ.
4) You're still behind against any underpair
5) All you can beat is two undercards (which is unlikely) or a total bluff.

Why risk so much when you are doing ok in the beginning stages of a tourney? Pick your spots and move up...but this IMO is not a good one.

Also, calling a solid player is KJo is bad because you are easily dominated. Say you call the solid player who is holding AK and a K hits on the flop. Are you going to able to get away from your top pair? ...it doesn't sound like it. Daniel Negreanu refers to KJo as the 'sucker' hand. Just because they are face cards does not mean they are good. They may be good enough to raise in later position in an unopened pot...or simply call the blind, they are not good to go to battle with a solid opponent. You want to avoid marginal decisions that hands like this put you in.

[neismond]

thank you for the advice. it is funny, i thought my thought process pre-flop was actually good... and now, it seems i really made a dumb mistake :P

o well, the good thing is i want to learn and get better, and hopefully i can learn from this and move on...

neismond

ps- keep the comments coming if you wish!

[Frond]

Early on, maiking those kinds of calls will eventually cost you. You got lucky on the flop this time. Why risk so many chips early on when someone else will do that instead of you.

[Dante1126]

I pretty much agree with the others. KJ is known as the "Rookie" hand for a reason. It looks good, but is actually trash as it is a dog to so many hands that its likely to play against. While your villain did seem frustrated if you put him on anything but two undercards as mentioned, there is absolutely no need to put that much of your stack at risk to the bad side of a coin flip at best. Now, if it was the latter stages with blinds representing large portions of your stack and the table was short handed, it would be a different story. But alas, that wasn't the case.

[wedgeporter]

I agree with these guys that it was a poor call but..
He had the hand you thought so you knew it would be a coin flip. Considering the risk you were taking with the chance to bust an opponent, it would be ok later in the tourney. The people who I normally play with would most likely make this call and think it was ok when they "got lucky" as you said.

In the future when making a play against this same opponent try to not take all of his chips in one shot because he seems to be put on tilt easilly and there is nothing more fun than tilting a guy who still has chips left.

[wedgeporter]

I have a similar question about a recent hand, that busted me from the tourney.
Deep stacks--early tourney
I am on the big blind(200)and seats 1, 2 and 3 fold. Seat four, a guy I play with a bit raises to 800 and we get one call. Find J-8c and call. I make the call b/c I know he will raise with any pair 9's and higher or any suited ace. there is 2500 in the pot.

Flop 9-8-5 no flush SB checks, I check and my opponent C-bets 1100. SB folds and I raise to 3000 and my opponent calls brining the pot to 8500. Now my thinking is that he has an over pair and I am in some trouble.
Turn brings 8h making the heart draw possible and making me trip 8's. Fearing the flush and straight draws I decide that I have one move and do just that, put my last 9100 chips in the pot and he calls without a thought( he has me out chipped by about 4000). He had raised with 7-8d, which is out of character for him. I have him outkicked(J to the 9 on the board is his kicker) but he has the inside 6 draw to a straight. 6c on the river compleats his staight and I make a very quick exit.

Did I get outplayed or was I beat by a guy who doesn't know how to fold? Was this just unlucky? I check raised the flop with middle pair I know but was prepared to check and fold if I did not improve. Can someone correct me if I was wrong?