1/2nl in which i attempt a DEEP bluff against IKESTOYS

[mdkrahn]

I don't think draws make up a large portion of his range,
as I think you're repping boat, or air hands here.
I'm not sure how he plays, but I also think he might check the turn here a lot with draws.

That said, I think Ike's has AJ+, or boats, occasionally other J's.
I don't think he's folding the river.
Maybe that's too nitty of a range though.

[pineapple888]

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that 4 most definitely didn't help Ike.

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I wouldn't be 100% sure about that. It's actually really hard to put ike on a specific hand here. Which is why playing against LAGs sux. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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for sure, 45s, 64s are definitely hands within his range playing this deep. i would think so at least.

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A4s, K4s.... 74s... 44...

[ikestoys]

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that 4 most definitely didn't help Ike.

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untrue, but it is unlikely, given preflop

[llleisure]

He doesn't seem to be drawing and doesn't seem to be buying that you have him beat with the action up to the river so does the river bet convince him? Is shoving the river lighting money on fire? It'd be a much harder call if you just shove than you make what looks like a value bet I think.

For some reason I feel like he has 2 pair but I don't know how exactly.

Edit: 3 pair if you count the 4s that paired? (J9??) Or AJ maybe with the paired board JJ & 44 with A kicker? Seems thin for calling down the whole way but if he isn't buying it he just isn't buying it.

[pineapple888]

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that 4 most definitely didn't help Ike.

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untrue, but it is unlikely, given preflop

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Well, then you have 99 obviously. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[markuisis]

I think w/e ike has he played it non-standard, either not raising a pretty wet board with a set or two pair or planning to call down with a bluffcatcher on turn and river after the c/r (i dunno how wide a turn range ike has but w/e). I think hed prob raise draws on the flop and if he didnt would prob not call the c/raise on a paired board with them but i dunno. I do think the 4 couldve helped him because i imagine 45s and 46s r in his range. I like this bluff if u think ike couldve floated u on this flop (prob not too likely), bets a wide turn range (1010, 109, jx etc.) and thinks ur straightforward. I think once he calls the turn u should give up.

[jlocdog]

kaz2107,

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so wuty type of line will work as a bluff against a good reg here??? just bet all three streets??? my line seems stronger in a vacuum then betting all 3 streets.

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It's true your line is much stronger then a standard 3 barrel line. What you are dismissing or underestimating is the amount of hands you represent with your line vs. the amount of hands you can represent with a 3 barrel line. Given Ikes' line it would seem that most of your 3 barrel range beats him.

What I am trying to say is that there is no need to go to the lengths of repping such an elite hand while shrinking your range to do so, when a 3 barrel creating a broader range will probably get the desired fold you are looking for.

Pineapple888,

Ikestoys said what I was going to say. Also, maybe I used a poor choice of words since it should be obvious that we should never rule out any hand or card one can hold. But the weight given to that card should be so minimal that it doesn't affect our immediate decision.

[spivey]

ike has played a 4 or J standard here (calling the c/r if you don't believe the villain of course).

[markuisis]

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ike has played a 4 or J standard here (calling the c/r if you don't believe the villain of course).

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ya, 4 is def standard, i guess i think calling down with a j is non-standard but not necessarily tricky, just uncommon. Sets and two pairs or overpairs r obv non-standard

[ikestoys]

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that 4 most definitely didn't help Ike.

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untrue, but it is unlikely, given preflop

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Well, then you have 99 obviously. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

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yeah, i never have JJ, 99 or 44 here... I don't slowplay wet flops with sets against a SB raiser.