The Official "Tom Brady re-writes the record books in 2007" Thread

[BillNye]

Brady will re-write the records, he isnt the greatest QB ever or anything though. He has the best OLine, the best WR'ing core, and the best Coach. He also has a great Defense to help him out.

Pats are sooo money, Brady is getting way too much love though considering he has 10seconds to sit in the pocket and find and open target, then he just says "[censored] it" and throws to Moss in double and Moss decides if he wants to catch it or not, so far this year he has wanted to catch it.

[vhawk01]

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He fumbled a lot, but his fumbles lost stats arent NEARLY as bad and are much more in line with a QB who runs as much as he does.

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I don't have any way of proving it, but I suspect that very few of Culpepper's fumbles were the result of open field running. I don't think you can attribute his exceptionally high fumble rate to the fact that he is a scrambler.

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I don't know how to refute that. Except to say that, due to his ability to scramble, he held the ball a lot longer than many other QBs, since he was almost never looking to throw the ball away. Which led to more hits and more fumbles. These fumbles ALSO should be discounted because of his running ability.

But yeah he fumbled the center snap a lot too I guess. Which is bad but not nearly as bad as an INT or even a sack.

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I'd love to see a breakdown of QB fumbles, something like: snaps, handoffs, sacks, other. It really is absurd to lump them all together.

Also, I think a fumbled snap has got to be worse than taking a sack. The extra burden of a couple more yards is going to be more than offset by the times the defense recovers the fumbled snap, although the addition of the times a sacked QB fumbles probably makes it pretty close.

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Agree wholeheartedly, and from someone who has watched probably 90% of Culpeppers career games, I'd guess that such a breakdown would not be very favorable to him. It really is a weakspot in the statistics. Especially since all center-exchange fumbles are ALWAYS credited to the QB. Isnt it likely that some centers are worse than others? Why is it impossible for us to know this?

[Vyse]

Matt Birk's pretty good.

[vhawk01]

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Matt Birk's pretty good.

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At blocking. At pass protect. Who knows? I'm not really saying Matt Birk isn't good. I'm just saying that there is absolutely no way you can know (with even a tiny amount of certainty) that he is better at the center exchange than any other C in football. Why would that correlate with run blocking or pulling or pass blocking?

[Vyse]

Because usually if you're good at the more complicated aspects of your position, the simple things like a center exchange are usually mastered. I'm sure horribly bad QBs make more handoff exchange mistakes than the HOF Peyton Mannings.

[Needle77]

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Because usually if you're good at the more complicated aspects of your position, the simple things like a center exchange are usually mastered. I'm sure horribly bad QBs make more handoff exchange mistakes than the HOF Peyton Mannings.

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Center-QB exchange issue is one that shouldn't even be discussed. All NFL centers are equal in this aspect and is not something that is an issue. It has to do more with reps with the QB than anything else, knowing where his hands are, how fast he pulls out from under the center, and how he says the cadence.

The difficult issue of the center is if he has a 0 technique and he has to take a flat step to get in front of him, that is where you can evaluate a center. Or if there is a 2i on the strong side A gap and the center needs to work with the guard to the MLB, that is how you evaluate centers.

[vhawk01]

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Because usually if you're good at the more complicated aspects of your position, the simple things like a center exchange are usually mastered. I'm sure horribly bad QBs make more handoff exchange mistakes than the HOF Peyton Mannings.

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I just don't think the evidence supports that, or even if that is a general trend, there are many glaring exceptions. And those exceptions are what we are interested in. Warren Moon and Dave Krieg (if memory serves me) are both really high on the career fumbles list. Why would they be high and some other guys (who are less proficient at the more complicated aspects of QBing) be worse? I mean, yes, they are possibly aberrations, but thats exactly the point. Maybe Birk is an aberration. Who knows. It would be nice if these stats were kept.

[Vyse]

Apparently running QBs suck at life at holding on to the football.

[SL__72]

Culpepper is a special case... For example:

Vick:
7 rushes/g, 2.5 sacks/g, .75 fumbles/g
Culpepper(pre injury):
5.6 rushes/g, 2.8 sacks/g, .95 fumbles/g

[vhawk01]

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Culpepper is a special case... For example:

Vick:
7 rushes/g, 2.5 sacks/g, .75 fumbles/g
Culpepper(pre injury):
5.6 rushes/g, 2.8 sacks/g, .95 fumbles/g

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Right...but wouldn't it be sweet if we had a breakdown of those fumbles? Maybe Vick is sick good at the center exchange. Culpepper fumbled the center exchange like 4 times in preseason this year and at least twice in his limited work in the regular season. That seems like a lot but obv small sample size. My recollection from the Minny days is "he fumbles a lot" but I can't say as I have any accurate memory of what TYPES of fumbles he has. If he fumbles the exchange more than Vick than his "running QB fumbles" might not actually be worse. He's also more of a pocket passer than Vick so he likely gets blindsided WAY more often than Vick does. I'd settle for 3 splits: center exchange, within tackle box, outside tackle box. I think there is some actual information to be gained from this, not just esoteric debate.